You Want to Get Serious About Crime in America & Mexico?

[Jer]

Legalize drugs. All of them. Tomorrow.

I realize that this forum may not be the most receptive crowd to such an idea given our party lines and ideals but seriously, what's the point? All we've done is create a black market, turned addicts into criminals & given billions of dollars to the Mexican drug cartels. The drug problem has steadily gotten worse because parents over the decades have decided they don't need to teach their kids right from wrong because the gubment will do it and then they want to act shocked when they become addicts. And no, legalizing and then taxing isn't the answer either. Our government can't learn to balance the absurd budget they have no so adding fuel to that fire won't help. On top of that it gives gubment a loophole to 'punish' those who choose to do them anyway. Look at cigarettes and booze. The 'sin' tax will be the next tool of control and attempting to legislate morality.

It's already happening with cigarettes especially where they keep increasing the tax because smokers are dirty and need an excuse to quit, right? Listen, I hate cigarettes with a passion and have my reasons stemming from my childhood but that doesn't mean I feel it's my job to enforce this on others. It's illegal to do it in public places so by and large it doesn't affect me anymore. If someone wants to buy a product from a company that produces it and consume it in the privacy of their own home in the alleged 'freest country in the nation' then who are we to stop them or punish them?

Keep increasing prices through tax though and cigarettes will be the next MJ or Meth. Eventually the price of a pack will be enough that a crime syndicate can produce the on the black market for much less and make a profit and that will be the next thing. Fact it, it's our own actions that are digging our grave and the war on drugs has to be the biggest one. It's a bottomless pit of money that serves only to criminalize those who aren't actual criminals and fund war lords across our southern border. If drugs were legal tomorrow and people could buy/sell them in the open in safer places and get safer product then what would happen to the crime syndicate in this nation and in Mexico? You take the danger out of it and the price plummets. Suddenly, there is no more profit in it or very little to where producing thousands of miles away and sneaking into another country no longer has value.

Face it, whatever we're doing it ain't working. How far down the chute will we allow ourselves to go before we dig in and start to try to climb back out?

[CroiDhubh]

Some country did this...for a few years accidental deaths ran rampant and the medical system was horribly bogged down. Now, however, usage is extremely rare and drug related crimes are very low.

Also, if you think there already isn't a black market for cigarettes...well...That's naive.

[KevDen2005]

Some country did this...for a few years accidental deaths ran rampant and the medical system was horribly bogged down. Now, however, usage is extremely rare and drug related crimes are very low.

Also, if you think there already isn't a black market for cigarettes...well...That's naive.

And alcohol

[BushMasterBoy]

The prisons and all the enforcement would have to find a new line of work. I'd vote to legalize it, hell you can't even get Viagra without a prescription. The government won't change very soon. At least I don't have to pay taxes for inmates busted with a little weed. But I gotta pay taxes so an asshat & family can live in the White House. The system is criminal in my eyes.

[Ronin13]

Some country did this...for a few years accidental deaths ran rampant and the medical system was horribly bogged down. Now, however, usage is extremely rare and drug related crimes are very low.

Also, if you think there already isn't a black market for cigarettes...well...That's naive.

Netherlands? That's what they did and instead of treating addiction like a crime, they treat it like, well... addiction. Money that would have gone to prosecuting, jailing, and "rehabilitating" you, now goes to treatment- if you desire it, or court mandated if you become a danger to yourself and/or others.

[Jer]

Some country did this...for a few years accidental deaths ran rampant and the medical system was horribly bogged down. Now, however, usage is extremely rare and drug related crimes are very low.

Also, if you think there already isn't a black market for cigarettes...well...That's naive.

Of course this will be the resort as the system needs to be purged but it won't last forever and the end result years down the road will be a society of individuals who make their own decisions and most will make the right decision because it's the right thing to do and not because a law told them so.

I didn't say there wasn't one but it's not the problem that controlled substances are, yet.

Edit: D'oh I typed all that up before I read your second sentence. I'm not sure how I missed it but it's nice to hear that there is actual supporting evidence to my theory. What country was this? Details? I'm not one to compare country to country because I feel there are just too many differences but it would be nice to read about.

[Gunyaga]

Go ahead and tax it, and direct those tax dollars to treating addiction and education. Have the industry (at least partially) pay for itself. It's going to exist either way, instead of continuing to make it a pure spending issue, gather some income from from it.

[Jer]

Netherlands? That's what they did and instead of treating addiction like a crime, they treat it like, well... addiction. Money that would have gone to prosecuting, jailing, and "rehabilitating" you, now goes to treatment- if you desire it, or court mandated if you become a danger to yourself and/or others.

Perfect. I remember hearing about this as it applied to addiction specifically and remember reading nothing but good things about it. It had strong opposition to begin with but the results spoke for themselves after a short period.

As for LE needing to find other work, you heard it from others... accidental death and violent crime spikes so LE will actually get to use their expensive toys for real criminals and then, as the older LEOs retire we just don't replace them for span of a decade or so until the #'s necessary to control ACTUAL crime are reached. The longer we wait to do such a thing the higher this initial spike will be though. We need to do this NOW IMO.

[Jer]

Go ahead and tax it, and direct those tax dollars to treating addiction and education. Have the industry (at least partially) pay for itself. It's going to exist either way, instead of continuing to make it a pure spending issue, gather some income from from it.

I hate this idea that 'taxing it' does anything. Sure, at first it may help to pay for itself but before you know it it's just another way for the .gov to control the masses and pay for shit that we don't want/need. Besides, the money saved from law enforcement, legal system & imprisonment will FAR exceed what treatment will cost.

[Irving]

Right now they are looking at taxing weed in Colorado at 25% "just while necessary," I.e. forever.
Taxing commerce regularly, as all other commerce is taxed is one thing; anything else is unacceptable, and undefendable. Indefenseable?