Powder/Primer Storage - Legalities and Solutions

[DHC]

With kids in the home, the question of safe (and legal) storage of powder and primers has been on my mind lately.

First addressing legalities, I found that SAAMI publishes two relevant brochures:

* Smokeless Powder: Properties and Storage, Link here --> http://www.saami.org/specifications_...ess_Powder.pdf, and
* Sporting Ammunition Primers: Properties, Handling & Safe Storage for Handloading, Link here --> http://www.saami.org/specifications_...01-Primers.pdf

In those documents are references to the National Fire Protection Association publication 495 chapter 11, applicable here. In summary, there are published guidelines for specialized storage requirements in residences when the quantities exceed:

* 20 pounds of smokeless powder (less than 20 pounds may be stored in original containers)
* 10,000 primers. In fact, as I read the code, it places a firm upper limit on the total number of primers that may be stored in residences to 10,000. Reference paragraph 11-5.4.

Apparently most/many municipalities have adopted ordinances that codify the guidelines contained in the NFPA Guidelines (I'll be checking the local ordinances here to be sure). Further, many insurance companies require compliance with local ordinances in order to pay on any claims.

The powder storage guidelines can be met, albeit with some effort and expense in building (or buying) storage cabinets to their specifications. The primer limitation, however, seems a potentially serious issue. 10,000 primers is not very many.

How are you guys addressing this? Is my understanding correct - and if so, doesn't it represent a serious risk if there is ever a house fire? I don't mean a risk due to primer/powder explosion, I mean the risk that the insurance company will deny any claims if they find local ordinances were not followed - even if those violations had little, or nothing, to do with the actual cause of the claim.

I am curious as to how others have addressed this and the solutions.

ETA: It looks like there is a maximum amount of powder allowed to be stored in private residences as well - that limit being 50 pounds.

[Great-Kazoo]

With kids in the home, the question of safe (and legal) storage of powder and primers has been on my mind lately.

First addressing legalities, I found that SAAMI publishes two relevant brochures:

* Smokeless Powder: Properties and Storage, Link here --> http://www.saami.org/specifications_...ess_Powder.pdf, and
* Sporting Ammunition Primers: Properties, Handling & Safe Storage for Handloading, Link here --> http://www.saami.org/specifications_...01-Primers.pdf

In those documents are references to the National Fire Protection Association publication 495 chapter 11, applicable here. In summary, there are published guidelines for specialized storage requirements in residences when the quantities exceed:

* 20 pounds of smokeless powder (less than 20 pounds may be stored in original containers)
* 10,000 primers. In fact, as I read the code, it places a firm upper limit on the total number of primers that may be stored in residences to 10,000. Reference paragraph 11-5.4.

Apparently most/many municipalities have adopted ordinances that codify the guidelines contained in the NFPA Guidelines (I'll be checking the local ordinances here to be sure). Further, many insurance companies require compliance with local ordinances in order to pay on any claims.

The powder storage guidelines can be met, albeit with some effort and expense in building (or buying) storage cabinets to their specifications. The primer limitation, however, seems a potentially serious issue. 10,000 primers is not very many.

How are you guys addressing this? Is my understanding correct - and if so, doesn't it represent a serious risk if there is ever a house fire? I don't mean a risk due to primer/powder explosion, I mean the risk that the insurance company will deny any claims if they find local ordinances were not followed - even if those violations had little, or nothing, to do with the actual cause of the claim.

I am curious as to how others have addressed this and the solutions.

ETA: It looks like there is a maximum amount of powder allowed to be stored in private residences as well - that limit being 50 pounds.

1" thick wood storage cabinets, with wheels on them for ease of relocation. I'm buying off CL used kitchen cabinets (already 1/2") and adding another layer of 3/4" wood to it. I don't store any reloading components in the home, so that's not a concern. The shop is approx 75' from home , closest building is next door and not a residence. I was looking at adding a fire suppression system, like security systems, for lower ins premiums.

[BlasterBob]

The original post doesn't cover the storage of BLACK POWDER. Lot of muzzle loader shooters have a few pounds of this stuff and what are the precautions for storing that VERY explosive stuff??

[DHC]

The original post doesn't cover the storage of BLACK POWDER. Lot of muzzle loader shooters have a few pounds of this stuff and what are the precautions for storing that VERY explosive stuff??

Good point. I don't load using real black powder, only an occasional BP substitute (treated the same as smokeless powder). I did find that CA has laws pertaining to smokeless and black powder and they equate one pound of black powder with 50 pounds of smokeless. I also found some OSHA regulations that offer guidance --> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...able=STANDARDS, but I am not sure how binding OSHA regs are for private individuals in their residences.

[Great-Kazoo]

The original post doesn't cover the storage of BLACK POWDER. Lot of muzzle loader shooters have a few pounds of this stuff and what are the precautions for storing that VERY explosive stuff??

Same wood storage

Good point. I don't load using real black powder, only an occasional BP substitute (treated the same as smokeless powder). I did find that CA has laws pertaining to smokeless and black powder and they equate one pound of black powder with 50 pounds of smokeless. I also found some OSHA regulations that offer guidance --> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...able=STANDARDS, but I am not sure how binding OSHA regs are for private individuals in their residences.

This is not CA and OSHA is for Work / business. Not a private individual. You let osha in to anyone's home and get the check book out, be it the improperly stored garden hose, to power equipment unsecured where minors are.

[DHC]

This is not CA and OSHA is for Work / business. Not a private individual. You let osha in to anyone's home and get the check book out, be it the improperly stored garden hose, to power equipment unsecured where minors are.

Acknowledged on both points. The CA reference was merely to provide some indication of the comparative 'dangers' of the two classifications of powder. The LAST thing I care to do is hold CA up as any kind of example, however, in the absence of any other reference source, at least it provides a data point.

[jerrymrc]

We have talked about this before but one thing I will say is that if you ask your local fire dept you will get a deer in the headlights look and one of those "So how much ya got?" replies.

SAAMI publishes two relevant brochures

And just like the items if referances;

No more than 10,000 primers may be displayed in a commercial establishment

Means that every gun shop is in violation. 10K of primers is two little boxes of 5K each.

Apparently most/many municipalities have adopted ordinances that codify the guidelines contained in the NFPA Guidelines (I'll be checking the local ordinances here to be sure). Further, many insurance companies require compliance with local ordinances in order to pay on any claims.

Good luck finding them and once again when you ask about them be prepared for the "How much ya got?" I spent a few days searching and calling years ago and gave up after being asked again and again. Please do report back to us on your experience.

I myself am comfortable with my storage as nothing is perfect other than having your own little igloo out in the back 40. My garage is scarier than my reloading room.

[buckshotbarlow]

you can store them in my house...but they might not make it back to your place...

[Great-Kazoo]

Acknowledged on both points. The CA reference was merely to provide some indication of the comparative 'dangers' of the two classifications of powder. The LAST thing I care to do is hold CA up as any kind of example, however, in the absence of any other reference source, at least it provides a data point.

You want a more specific answer call one of the local reloading supply shops and see what they do. ANY DATA FROM CA IS #$%^&. They are circumventing gun laws buy using an EPA tactic to outlaw sales, possession of Lead ammo.

We have talked about this before but one thing I will say is that if you ask your local fire dept you will get a deer in the headlights look and one of those "So how much ya got?" replies. And just like the items if referances; Means that every gun shop is in violation. 10K of primers is two little boxes of 5K each.



Good luck finding them and once again when you ask about them be prepared for the "How much ya got?" I spent a few days searching and calling years ago and gave up after being asked again and again. Please do report back to us on your experience.

I myself am comfortable with my storage as nothing is perfect other than having your own little igloo out in the back 40. My garage is scarier than my reloading room.

MY FD was like ??????????? As long as they're stored correctly no problem, was the final answer. When i did a change of electrical svc to the house. No sch40 was in stock, so my sparky says to the power guys. We're using schd ?? will that work? The inspector, and power co mgr, look at the service guy and say, If he's good with it we are.

[DHC]

You want a more specific answer call one of the local reloading supply shops and see what they do. ANY DATA FROM CA IS #$%^&. They are circumventing gun laws buy using an EPA tactic to outlaw sales, possession of Lead ammo.



MY FD was like ??????????? As long as they're stored correctly no problem, was the final answer. When i did a change of electrical svc to the house. No sch40 was in stock, so my sparky says to the power guys. We're using schd ?? will that work? The inspector, and power co mgr, look at the service guy and say, If he's good with it we are.

Jim,

My OP intended to seek clarification on two issues, safety and legality, in the context of storing primers and powders in a private residence. A question to the local reloading supply shop *might* be helpful in terms of the safety issue, but doubtful they would be knowledgeable about laws pertaining to private residence storage.

What I've found interesting thus far is that no one has addressed the primer limitation issue. If my understanding is correct, then anyone storing more than 10,000 primers in their home is quite possibly violating the law and exposing themselves to possible insurance problems in the event of making a claim. Rather than address this directly, the responses so far seem more along the lines of ignoring the issue rather than understanding and confronting it, if needed. That surprises me a bit as it is inconsistent with my general impression of the members here.

I am still seeking information and will, indeed, be making calls to folks in the local FD and elsewhere. Should their questions turn intrusive and personal (as they are likely to do) that will be met with a professional and courteous notice that their questions are irrelevant to the requested information. As suggested upthread, I will report back if I learn anything worthwhile. In the meantime, I hope others who read this and are storing more than the maximum amounts of powder and/or primers will do their own research to conclude, as jerrymrc did, that they are comfortable with their own storage 'situation.'