Commiefornia Police Kick in Door and Taze Person Filming Them

[BushMasterBoy]

I'm sure being a cop for 15 years will make you jaded. Same as a FBI agent chasing terrorists or a soldier on his fourth tour of Afghanistan. I wouldn't take anything printed in this forum seriously. Now I have to get back to building my bunker...

[Hound]

As I have said before, while yes compliance is probably the safest bet, you shouldn't _have_ to comply and _have_ to take it to a civil suit. The Fourth says that you have a right to be secure in your person etc, not that you have a right to sue if you aren't secure in your person.

To put it in a different context for this forum's general style, I see it as the difference between "...the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" vs "the right to bring claim against the government if you aren't permitted to keep and bear arms."

Good point

[Ronin13]

Yes. Comply. If the police are wrong you have a means for justice. It's called a civil suit. And I've already explained the balance part, Mr Miyagi.

Okay, devil's advocate time here- Is the court system the ONLY place you can stand against LE? I'm not saying that whole "fuck the po-lice, fight the system" crap, no I'm talking in the instance where it maybe a little unclear (not just from the contact's perspective) whether or not there exists circumstances for warrant-less search or entry, or what have you. Is the only place the courts? Again, not arguing, I really want to know if I need to set up a 3rd savings account aside from my emergency car repairs fund and legal defense fund for a "take LE to court if the need arises" fund... because as you state, the only place to stand up to cops (be they right or wholly wrong) is in court. That's basically saying if in the off chance that a LEO oversteps his/her bounds, or violates any constitutional right, you have to spend money... because politely refusing consent to an illegal search when someone makes a minor, human error or oversight, could get you into hot water. Not saying this happens a lot, but I am saying, like the rest of us, LE is not imperfect, they make mistakes too, I just would hate to have to spend a shitload of money to combat that mistake in court (and I'm not guaranteed a settlement that pays for my lawyer). See where I'm going with this? Again, not trying to stir up argument, but saying "the only place to stand up to when a cop makes a mistake is in court, on your own dime," sounds a bit like "it's okay, let people walk all over you, fight it later at your own expense." Thanks, but no.

ETA: I only point this out because I have been threatened by a LEO before because they were wrong on something, but were too stubborn or whatever to admit they were wrong, and when I tried to politely correct their mistaken idea, they took it as an affront to their authority and experience. No, you just make a mistake, admit you're wrong and we can be pals, no need to threaten me.

[Dave_L]

So if all it takes is a phone call to get a possible DV charge on you, what's stopping a vengeful neighbor from calling in their neighbor for no reason?

I understand cops are put in ridiculously bad spots all day long. Especially dealing with a lot of idiots out there. So please take my question seriously. I know the standard and easiest solution is to say "Well, talk to the cops and if nothing is going on, then there's nothing to worry about." and that's what I would generally do. However, it's my understanding that DV calls are handled very seriously (which is what most of the LEO's on here are confirming) and a simple "everything is fine" may not solve the situation. On DV calls, isn't someone usually taken away from the situation? Whether that's to a hotel or jail? Or is that only when the husband and wife confirm there was fighting but it's ok now? At that point, do they recommend one person leave the premises? If everything looks and sounds fine, do ALL cops just leave and say "Don't make me come back"?

What if I'm just watching a movie such as "Enough" very loudly with my wife and a neighbor thinks I'm beating my wife? Will both of us going outside and confirming things are fine be enough to have the cops leave with no other repercussions? Yes, I understand the "Well just take the easy route and go tell them its fine" option. I agree that it's probably the best and easiest option for all involved but some may not feel this way. After all, the cops are basically there because you're watching a movie too loud. Some neighbor just got a little antsy.

This also brings up the point of why it's good to have a relationship with your neighbors/neighborhood. So you know when there's real cause for concern versus a movie too loud.

FWIW, I have no problem with dealing with cops. I'm always polite to them and never try to be an asshole to them. The favor is usually returned. But because DV calls are handled so seriously, they can be over reacted to, on both sides. The last thing I want is a bogus DV charge/accusation because a cop felt he HAD to do something because of a neighbor's phone call.

If I'm "assuming the worst" too much, go ahead and say so. It just seems crazy to me that a simple phone call can lead to a huge debacle (assuming the cop and homeowner butt heads enough). Are there any repercussions to the neighbor that gets over zealous on their phone calls?

[LippCJ7]

Okay, devil's advocate time here- Is the court system the ONLY place you can stand against LE? I'm not saying that whole "fuck the po-lice, fight the system" crap, no I'm talking in the instance where it maybe a little unclear (not just from the contact's perspective) whether or not there exists circumstances for warrant-less search or entry, or what have you. Is the only place the courts? Again, not arguing, I really want to know if I need to set up a 3rd savings account aside from my emergency car repairs fund and legal defense fund for a "take LE to court if the need arises" fund... because as you state, the only place to stand up to cops (be they right or wholly wrong) is in court. That's basically saying if in the off chance that a LEO oversteps his/her bounds, or violates any constitutional right, you have to spend money... because politely refusing consent to an illegal search when someone makes a minor, human error or oversight, could get you into hot water. Not saying this happens a lot, but I am saying, like the rest of us, LE is not imperfect, they make mistakes too, I just would hate to have to spend a shitload of money to combat that mistake in court (and I'm not guaranteed a settlement that pays for my lawyer). See where I'm going with this? Again, not trying to stir up argument, but saying "the only place to stand up to when a cop makes a mistake is in court, on your own dime," sounds a bit like "it's okay, let people walk all over you, fight it later at your own expense." Thanks, but no.

ETA: I only point this out because I have been threatened by a LEO before because they were wrong on something, but were too stubborn or whatever to admit they were wrong, and when I tried to politely correct their mistaken idea, they took it as an affront to their authority and experience. No, you just make a mistake, admit you're wrong and we can be pals, no need to threaten me.

No/sort of, but the court system is the Ultimate Authority, sometimes LEO's do bad things and the Department or the DA can take actions against the LEO and its settled, but in difficult cases where things fall into a grey area of the law the case is typically determined one way or the other by the court system, that's why we always site Case Law, for this specific scenario it was decided in the State of Colorado Vs. John Doe, every Department I know of has regular updates to changes in the Law, and if you can go through the entire session without falling asleep your a better man then me, this next update should be pretty interesting but until these new laws are tested in court they can really hammer the beat cops unless policy is clearly defined, Obviously you can take it to Civil Court.

Its much like these new Gun Laws that take effect in July, I am not going to get all spun up until these laws clear the court system, Sheriff Maketa(sp) recently noted that 53 of Colorado's 62 Sheriff's are filing an injunction against some of the new laws, people are either happy or pissed of by this action when in fact this is the way the system works, let the courts decide, that's where the term unenforceable comes from(in this case)

The thing is that in most cases where its difficult to differentiate a persons civil rights against say exigent circumstances the person involved will be in limbo until it is decided, and that can certainly go all the way to SCOTUS so imagine how long the wait could be and the person in question could certainly be in prison while he or she waits, you can research that all day long some cases are pretty sad, but a vast majority of LEO's do not want to do anything other then make sure they are doing their job COMPLETELY as supported by the Laws of the State, yeah there are yahoo's out there on both sides and that's why I say all anyone has to do is be clear, concise and cooperative when discussing issues with LE, once everything has been cleared up hopefully everyone can laugh about it and go about their way, but by being argumentative and hiding behind a door you better know what your rights are according to the law.

Look I got interviewed by LE 10 years ago, I was driving my Girlfriend and her son from a four wheeling trip in Montrose to their house in Fruita, we were going down highway 6/50 and if you don't know the area in Grand Junction there are car lots on both sides of the highway, well my future Son decides this would be a great time for a Slug Bug competition, ok now I am driving a crew cab long bed truck with a 26' flatbed and my Jeep on the trailer in rush hour traffic so obviously I am not paying attention to the local car lots so I am getting pounded! After five miles of this I pull over and start dealing some justice! nothing harsh I never left a mark on him we were all laughing our asses off, so I get back on the road and in a couple miles I have CSP pulling me over and make no mistake this Trooper was at an elevated level hands on his weapon so I knew things were pretty hot, so I turned my truck off rolled down the window and placed both hands on the steering wheel, the Trooper made it very clear that he was investigating a possible DV and Child Abuse in progress, needless to say we cooperated completely and after a short stop (and sincerest apologies to the Trooper)we were on our way again, laughing.

The point is that anyone can call 911, you don't know what LE is there for and typically they will tell you up front why they are there, be clear concise and cooperative. If you have a beef then you can take that up after your interview.

[Irving]

It's a cop thing.... Right?

No. Not at all. Not even close. If you are willing to divulge what kind of job you have, I may be able to draw some parallels to help you put this conversation into the proper perspective.

[OneGuy67]

So if all it takes is a phone call to get a possible DV charge on you, what's stopping a vengeful neighbor from calling in their neighbor for no reason?

I understand cops are put in ridiculously bad spots all day long. Especially dealing with a lot of idiots out there. So please take my question seriously. I know the standard and easiest solution is to say "Well, talk to the cops and if nothing is going on, then there's nothing to worry about." and that's what I would generally do. However, it's my understanding that DV calls are handled very seriously (which is what most of the LEO's on here are confirming) and a simple "everything is fine" may not solve the situation. On DV calls, isn't someone usually taken away from the situation? Whether that's to a hotel or jail? Or is that only when the husband and wife confirm there was fighting but it's ok now? At that point, do they recommend one person leave the premises? If everything looks and sounds fine, do ALL cops just leave and say "Don't make me come back"?

What if I'm just watching a movie such as "Enough" very loudly with my wife and a neighbor thinks I'm beating my wife? Will both of us going outside and confirming things are fine be enough to have the cops leave with no other repercussions? Yes, I understand the "Well just take the easy route and go tell them its fine" option. I agree that it's probably the best and easiest option for all involved but some may not feel this way. After all, the cops are basically there because you're watching a movie too loud. Some neighbor just got a little antsy.

This also brings up the point of why it's good to have a relationship with your neighbors/neighborhood. So you know when there's real cause for concern versus a movie too loud.

FWIW, I have no problem with dealing with cops. I'm always polite to them and never try to be an asshole to them. The favor is usually returned. But because DV calls are handled so seriously, they can be over reacted to, on both sides. The last thing I want is a bogus DV charge/accusation because a cop felt he HAD to do something because of a neighbor's phone call.

If I'm "assuming the worst" too much, go ahead and say so. It just seems crazy to me that a simple phone call can lead to a huge debacle (assuming the cop and homeowner butt heads enough). Are there any repercussions to the neighbor that gets over zealous on their phone calls?

Your neighbor can call on you all day long. It does happen, not often, but it does. It is up to the officer assigned to the call to assess the situation. Believe it or not, we actually do have brains in our heads, have a bit of experience in dealing with people and are pretty good at determining when someone is lying to us. When we come to the door, we are looking for the totality of circumstances to make a determination of what is going on. If you come to the door and are surprised to see us, are calm and polite and laugh or smile when we explain why we are there and you proceed to explain the movie situation, then that is a what we call "a clue" in determining whether or not a crime has or is occurring.

I've been called to loud disturbance calls at residences where two people are just having a loud argument. Nothing else. Just not getting along and living in the same space. It happens. Quite often. We usually would recommend that one party leave, but we can't force that if both parties are legal participants of the residence or domicile. Sometimes, one party agrees to leave, sometimes not. It is dependent upon finances, on having a place to go (couch crash somewhere) or other factors. Not all can do this.

DV is the one crime in which law enforcement's hands are tied and if there is evidence of a crime, then we must enforce the law. No discretion in this, but I go back to this: THERE MUST BE EVIDENCE OF A CRIME FOR AN ARREST. It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY you would get a bogus DV charge based upon a neighbors call and nothing else.

[Dave_L]

DV is the one crime in which law enforcement's hands are tied and if there is evidence of a crime, then we must enforce the law. No discretion in this, but I go back to this: THERE MUST BE EVIDENCE OF A CRIME FOR AN ARREST. It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY you would get a bogus DV charge based upon a neighbors call and nothing else.

Thanks. That was my primary question. I've dealt with cops for various reasons and never had any issues. I actually find most are cool as long as you're not wasting their time or being a jackass. My sister got a DV charge from her husband for poking him in the chest (self admitted) so while its minor, there was evidence so someone had to go. Just didn't know how far suspicions can extend in the eyes of the law.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'll just leave this here from another thread.

They would lose in court, waste money in the mean time, but lose. I assume the camera's from the cop cars would be enough to stop it before even that.

[Ronin13]

Believe it or not, we actually do have brains in our heads, have a bit of experience in dealing with people and are pretty good at determining when someone is lying to us.

The first two, I usually assume everyone should know, but as far as the lying thing goes, I can't imagine any other profession where someone is lied to more than LEO... maybe a dentist... "Of course I've been flossing!"
Thanks for the point of clarity OneGuy.