Help me tear apart this frightening video.

[Sawin]

I'm not particularly educated on CQB tactics, beyond some basics. However, I'm in complete agreement with NCPatrolAR (welcome to the forum, btw - nice to have somebody with your level of experience on board to contribute!) in that real world experience can lend some nice insight, but shouldn't be an absolute pre-requisite to teach. Competency, proficiency, and common sense should be enough.

Agreed, and paying more for the instruction from a highly experienced professional is to be expected. The price KellyTTE charged for his course was very affordable and worth the price paid IMO.

[cofi]

i dont really think the criticism of kellys course should be in this thread....but thats just me

[275RLTW]

ETA: My question for Mick- I've done CQB training, I've done breach training, I've done PSD training (to include driving, formations, and close protection), but never actually done the actual job.... Let's say I go out and take a bunch of CQB courses, and decide that I'm competent enough on the subject, and can preform adequately. But since I've never actually done it professionally in a real-life environment (training only, mind you) I'll never be qualified to teach it? Just clarify that for me please. Because by that logic, I've never been in a firefight, yet I have spent countless hours training people on the M4/M16 platform for combat scenarios, trained our unit officers on the M9 combat pistol course, and taught PSD operations, but since I have no real world applications I'm not qualified, right?

If you think that, then you don't know a thing about team movements/CQB/urban operations. And that is exactly why you or someone who thinks like that shouldn't be teaching that material, regardless of who they took a course from. That 1 sentiment shows your lack of experience.

[Ronin13]

If you think that, then you don't know a thing about team movements/CQB/urban operations. And that is exactly why you or someone who thinks like that shouldn't be teaching that material, regardless of who they took a course from. That 1 sentiment shows your lack of experience.

Please explain...

[275RLTW]

I'm not particularly educated on CQB tactics, beyond some basics. However, I'm in complete agreement with NCPatrolAR (welcome to the forum, btw - nice to have somebody with your level of experience on board to contribute!) in that real world experience can lend some nice insight, but shouldn't be an absolute pre-requisite to teach. Competency, proficiency, and common sense should be enough.

An 11B with only 2 years with a leg unit is not what one would consider experience compared to those who have been fighting these wars for 10+ years. Glad to see him continue his shooting education but experience is not his forte.

If you think "Competency, proficiency, and common sense should be enough," then you clearly don't know what we are talking about. For a static range that is a good start. For anything involving more dynamic movements, much more is needed, especially experience.

[275RLTW]

Please explain...

That has been explained in detail in this thread and has seemed become the entire point of this thread. Even Kelly pointed that out, although he doesn't follow it himself.

[Ronin13]

An 11B with only 2 years with a leg unit is not what one would consider experience compared to those who have been fighting these wars for 10+ years. Glad to see him continue his shooting education but experience is not his forte.

If you think "Competency, proficiency, and common sense should be enough," then you clearly don't know what we are talking about. For a static range that is a good start. For anything involving more dynamic movements, much more is needed, especially experience.

So by that logic just doing training with the unit, no matter how extensive, then one is not competent and aptly able to perform unless they have actually experience? Hmm... that's kind of faulty logic there. Please, try again.

To that I mean, and in response to your latest post, you are saying without actual, real world experience (meaning real bad guys, real bullets, real actual combat/breaching) that one is not experienced or proficient enough to teach the subject. Am I correct? I don't want to put words in your mouth. If that is the case then we shouldn't allow anyone to go into combat unless they've had actual combat experience. But in order to have combat experience you have to go into combat, but if you won't be allowed into combat without experience then you'll never gain combat experience and thus will never go into combat. See, doesn't make sense does it?

[NCPatrolAR]

An 11B with only 2 years with a leg unit is not what one would consider experience compared to those who have been fighting these wars for 10+ years. Glad to see him continue his shooting education but experience is not his forte

is this referencing my experience?

[275RLTW]

So by that logic just doing training with the unit, no matter how extensive, then one is not competent and aptly able to perform unless they have actually experience? Hmm... that's kind of faulty logic there. Please, try again.

To that I mean, and in response to your latest post, you are saying without actual, real world experience (meaning real bad guys, real bullets, real actual combat/breaching) that one is not experienced or proficient enough to teach the subject. Am I correct? I don't want to put words in your mouth. If that is the case then we shouldn't allow anyone to go into combat unless they've had actual combat experience. But in order to have combat experience you have to go into combat, but if you won't be allowed into combat without experience then you'll never gain combat experience and thus will never go into combat. See, doesn't make sense does it?

Again, you missed the point. Go back and read the thread.

[Ronin13]

Again, you missed the point. Go back and read the thread.

I believe I got the point... and I quote:
"If you think "Competency, proficiency, and common sense should be enough," then you clearly don't know what we are talking about. For a static range that is a good start. For anything involving more dynamic movements, much more is needed, especially experience."
No matter how many times one goes through a shoot house it will never be enough without actual experience. At least that's what I take away from your meaning, and remember kids, perception is reality.