Friend walked in on a burglary.

[hurley842002]

I don't care which side of the argument you are on, if you are of the mindset that "because the law states THIS, then THIS is what will happen", you are wrong. There are way too many variables in self defense, and use of force scenarios to try and predict what will happen. Hell, I don't care if you are a 30 year veteran judge, unless you are a mind reader, you cannot predict the outcome of a court case.

With that said, if you have ever had any formal "use of force" instruction, you have likely heard the term "totality of circumstance". Your decisions in this particular scenario, are going to be based solely on the "totality of circumstances". If you are notified of a criminal entering your home, and you KNOW your child is at home with the babysitter, if you get home before the police are there, you are likely going to enter the home, and be completely justified in whatever actions are necessary.

Flip the script, you get notification while you are at the park with your wife and child, of a burglary in progress at your residence, you or ADT have notified the police, and they are on the way, but you beat them to the scene. What reason do you truly have, to enter the residence? Ultimately, the only reason you should ever use lethal force, or enter into a situation where you could potentially have to use lethal force, is to protect life or limb.

In the end it is up to you to determine if your property is worth having your life turned upside down over. For me unless my family is at risk, it is not worth it, i'll wait for the police. I wish we could live in a world where criminals are held accountable, however we don't, and the criminals are treated as the victims, so I will do whatever I have to do, to ensure I spend many more days with my family.

[Dave_L]

I don't care which side of the argument you are on, if you are of the mindset that "because the law states THIS, then THIS is what will happen", you are wrong. There are way too many variables in self defense, and use of force scenarios to try and predict what will happen. Hell, I don't care if you are a 30 year veteran judge, unless you are a mind reader, you cannot predict the outcome of a court case.

With that said, if you have ever had any formal "use of force" instruction, you have likely heard the term "totality of circumstance". Your decisions in this particular scenario, are going to be based solely on the "totality of circumstances". If you are notified of a criminal entering your home, and you KNOW your child is at home with the babysitter, if you get home before the police are there, you are likely going to enter the home, and be completely justified in whatever actions are necessary.

Flip the script, you get notification while you are at the park with your wife and child, of a burglary in progress at your residence, you or ADT have notified the police, and they are on the way, but you beat them to the scene. What reason do you truly have, to enter the residence? Ultimately, the only reason you should ever use lethal force, or enter into a situation where you could potentially have to use lethal force, is to protect life or limb.

In the end it is up to you to determine if your property is worth having your life turned upside down over. For me unless my family is at risk, it is not worth it, i'll wait for the police. I wish we could live in a world where criminals are held accountable, however we don't, and the criminals are treated as the victims, so I will do whatever I have to do, to ensure I spend many more days with my family.

^This.

[davsel]

I don't care which side of the argument you are on, if you are of the mindset that "because the law states THIS, then THIS is what will happen", you are wrong. There are way too many variables in self defense, and use of force scenarios to try and predict what will happen. Hell, I don't care if you are a 30 year veteran judge, unless you are a mind reader, you cannot predict the outcome of a court case.

With that said, if you have ever had any formal "use of force" instruction, you have likely heard the term "totality of circumstance". Your decisions in this particular scenario, are going to be based solely on the "totality of circumstances". If you are notified of a criminal entering your home, and you KNOW your child is at home with the babysitter, if you get home before the police are there, you are likely going to enter the home, and be completely justified in whatever actions are necessary.

Flip the script, you get notification while you are at the park with your wife and child, of a burglary in progress at your residence, you or ADT have notified the police, and they are on the way, but you beat them to the scene. What reason do you truly have, to enter the residence? Ultimately, the only reason you should ever use lethal force, or enter into a situation where you could potentially have to use lethal force, is to protect life or limb.

In the end it is up to you to determine if your property is worth having your life turned upside down over. For me unless my family is at risk, it is not worth it, i'll wait for the police. I wish we could live in a world where criminals are held accountable, however we don't, and the criminals are treated as the victims, so I will do whatever I have to do, to ensure I spend many more days with my family.

^^^^^THIS!

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I don't care which side of the argument you are on, if you are of the mindset that "because the law states THIS, then THIS is what will happen", you are wrong. There are way too many variables in self defense, and use of force scenarios to try and predict what will happen. Hell, I don't care if you are a 30 year veteran judge, unless you are a mind reader, you cannot predict the outcome of a court case.

With that said, if you have ever had any formal "use of force" instruction, you have likely heard the term "totality of circumstance". Your decisions in this particular scenario, are going to be based solely on the "totality of circumstances". If you are notified of a criminal entering your home, and you KNOW your child is at home with the babysitter, if you get home before the police are there, you are likely going to enter the home, and be completely justified in whatever actions are necessary.

Flip the script, you get notification while you are at the park with your wife and child, of a burglary in progress at your residence, you or ADT have notified the police, and they are on the way, but you beat them to the scene. What reason do you truly have, to enter the residence? Ultimately, the only reason you should ever use lethal force, or enter into a situation where you could potentially have to use lethal force, is to protect life or limb.

In the end it is up to you to determine if your property is worth having your life turned upside down over. For me unless my family is at risk, it is not worth it, i'll wait for the police. I wish we could live in a world where criminals are held accountable, however we don't, and the criminals are treated as the victims, so I will do whatever I have to do, to ensure I spend many more days with my family.

That's been my whole point...

[Ronin13]

Here's the deal guys.

I made statements regarding my opinion related to the OP and subsequent poster's remarks to the effect of "shoot them dead" and, in my humble opinion, the lack of justification for a clean shoot in this case. I also do believe that if you "provoke," and I do mean provoke, someone into using deadly force against you, while you may possibly be in the right to end that person under very unique and consequential circumstances, you're going to have a shitstorm on your hands. Many other statements are being attributed to me that are completely false and misleading. I'm not going to carry on the discussion with all the 12 year old name calling and false attributions.

It's obvious that we're unable to come to any sort of agreement to disagree on this topic and I really do have better things to do.

I don't care which side of the argument you are on, if you are of the mindset that "because the law states THIS, then THIS is what will happen", you are wrong. There are way too many variables in self defense, and use of force scenarios to try and predict what will happen. Hell, I don't care if you are a 30 year veteran judge, unless you are a mind reader, you cannot predict the outcome of a court case.

With that said, if you have ever had any formal "use of force" instruction, you have likely heard the term "totality of circumstance". Your decisions in this particular scenario, are going to be based solely on the "totality of circumstances". If you are notified of a criminal entering your home, and you KNOW your child is at home with the babysitter, if you get home before the police are there, you are likely going to enter the home, and be completely justified in whatever actions are necessary.

Flip the script, you get notification while you are at the park with your wife and child, of a burglary in progress at your residence, you or ADT have notified the police, and they are on the way, but you beat them to the scene. What reason do you truly have, to enter the residence? Ultimately, the only reason you should ever use lethal force, or enter into a situation where you could potentially have to use lethal force, is to protect life or limb.

In the end it is up to you to determine if your property is worth having your life turned upside down over. For me unless my family is at risk, it is not worth it, i'll wait for the police. I wish we could live in a world where criminals are held accountable, however we don't, and the criminals are treated as the victims, so I will do whatever I have to do, to ensure I spend many more days with my family.

Point of clarity for both of these statements:
1- Just entering YOUR residence is not grounds for "provocation" of the intruder. Can we not muddy the waters on that one.
2- Simply stated, some were claiming it was illegal to enter your own house if you know there are unlawful intruders *POSSIBLY* inside. ADT calling you to inform you that your alarm is going off is not 100% proof positive that a burglar is inside your home- technology malfunctions all the time. Enter the house at your own discretion. I personally wouldn't, in case they are still there, or I wouldn't want to disturb a crime scene if things were stolen. But again, scenario dependent and as we all know (or I hope we all know by now) every situation is different and there is no one size fits all way to approach it. But what I'm stating is that there is no law that says if there is reasonable suspicion that some criminal is inside your home you can't enter. That's just silly talk right there.

ETA: Davsel, your response is hilarious! Garr, dead men tell no tales!