Ok, what's so evil about Monsanto?

[ThunderSquirrel]

Other than my dislike for brawndo, My real concerned is cross-pollination, as has already been stated above.

This is the case especially with their single generation, self terminating strains. What happens if these cross pollinate into a neighboring farm? If they are not sued to bankruptcy, they will slowly start losing the ability to do selective seeding on their crops, since they will become more sterile every generation. Or, (doomsday tin-foil hat theory ahead) what if the genetic mutation makes its way out to other plant species? Far fetched, I know.

[sellersm]

Here's one view: http://www.naturalnews.com/037289_mo...ns_ethics.html

[Ronin13]

You were actually making a good case until you sourced Center for Media and Democracy. Do you have some sources that aren't owned by George Soros?


See, this is my problem with the whole Monsanto and GMO issue ... there's a lot of things that sound like they make sense when you say them fast, but then I find out they're all coming from sources that see as their life's work the destruction of capitalism and western civilization ... then I have to take it all with a grain of salt.

You mean like the whole anti-CO2 deal (which is false) and the anti-Fracking movement (which is also false)?

[SA Friday]

I don't buy into the GMOs are terrible hype- considering we've been selectively breeding and planting for hundreds of years (as a species). Modified foods can be grown longer, in harsher environments, and have higher yields (in terms of volume of food they produce). But from what I hear, Monsanto's business practices and monopoly-dealings are the real reason to dislike them. Already been stated with how they handle their seeds. But there is not enough conclusive evidence to prove GMO foods are bad or good, from what I've found.

Well then you haven't researched the current methodologies used to genetically modify seed plants. Make no mistake, selective breeding and cross pollination are VERY different.

In a nut shell, the genetics of antibiotic resistant bacteria (ARBG) is introduced along with the target gene sequence (the two most common are Beta protein or round-up resistance protein sequences). Then once introduced, the sample is washed in antibiotics to kill any part of the sample that didn't take the insertion. The result is a gene sequence with traits of antibiotic resistance for bacteria in it. If this isn't enough to scream "danger Will Robinson," then look up the very newly discovered "Shadow protein" dilemma currently being tested and researched at only the highest levels of human genetics. Apparently they've figured out that certain sequences once thought to be "junk DNA" and in sequences ignored like the carrier ARBG sequence are not so much junk and show up in all kinds of places. Basically, certain protein sequences may work like letters of words of sentences that make things happen. An A is an A until it's Cyrillic and then everything get's confused and crashes. Ya, I want the world's corn and soy bean crops to systemically fail and... Oops, we didn't see that coming.

Lastly, there is evidence that gene sequences are incorporated by bacteria based on their environment. Basically, GMO plan pollen is ingested by bees, the bacteria in the bees stomach incorporates part of the ARBG, then propagates this sequence into other bacteria and the honey it makes. The honey is eaten by bee larva and propagated further. Scary stuff when you think about the 50% or more food that relies on bees to pollenate them.

It's a complicated issue that stems from the basic scientific question asking that just because we can do something, should we. In this case, we shouldn't (I caveat this with 'yet'). We simply don't understand the biological ramifications, the potential for catastrophic failure, nor the long term effects. The potential for financial destruction is pretty obvious with Monsanto running around testing fields for their gene sequences and suing anyone it's found on. This is udder BS by the way. cross-pollenization is impossible to stop and they know it, but they get away with it because it's cheaper for the farmer to pay their fucking blood money than fight them in court.

Ugh.... I'm getting wound up... I did a pretty extensive report on these issues in college. It's scary stuff and Monsanto crushes anyone that publishes scientifically against them.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-w...g-to-monsanto/

Here.

[SA Friday]

Other than my dislike for brawndo, My real concerned is cross-pollination, as has already been stated above.

This is the case especially with their single generation, self terminating strains. What happens if these cross pollinate into a neighboring farm? If they are not sued to bankruptcy, they will slowly start losing the ability to do selective seeding on their crops, since they will become more sterile every generation. Or, (doomsday tin-foil hat theory ahead) what if the genetic mutation makes its way out to other plant species? Far fetched, I know.

No not far fetched. It has a name: vertical transfer.

[PSS]

Monsanto sueing farmers for cross pollination is a myth. In fact they will pay to remove any gmo crops where they don't belong. I'm not sure about all the politics of gmo (pro or con) but I come from SE Kansas which has a heavy ag based economy and there are very few farmers if any that don't like Monsanto products. From a conventional farmers standpoint, Monsanto has revolutionized the farming industry for the better.

There was one case where a Canadian conola farm (Percy Schmeiser) was found to have a heavy percentage (over 50%) of roundup resistant gene. Percy admitted to spraying some canola that was next to a field of roundup ready canola as an experiment. Many plants survived the the herbicide. The farmer harvested the plants and replanted the seed the next year. The judge ruled that the farmer planted the seed knowing it contained the gene and ruled for Monsanto. The Canadian supreme court ruled that Percy had violated patent laws but gained nothing by it so they owed Monsanto nothing. This is the only case that I'm aware of that had Monsanto suing farmers for cross pollination. edit(they didn't sue because they thought it was cross pollinated but rather because of the presence of the patented gene)I'd like to know if there are others.

There has been a lot of cases of farmers and seed cleaners that were knowingly reusing seeds from gmo crops. I have no sympathy for those farmers. They sign agreements specifically stating that they are not allowed to do that. They reap the benefit of gmo crops and don't want to honor their own word. Monsanto is big ag business and it's easy to be bitter at the "man" but not sure that's how I want to live my life. As far as the ramification of gmo seeds causing the ills of the world and mutating into some monster strains I don't know. I do know the vast majority of farmers I know would be pissed if they lost access to Roudup Ready crops.

[PSS]

BTW roundup ready patent runs out in 2014. At which date farmers should be able to replant roundup ready crops. The heavy handed way they aggressively pursue suspected patent infringement makes me dislike the company. But not sure what they should do. I do know farmers and my belief is that there would be very few of them bother to pay for the technology if they could get away with it.

[SideShow Bob]

I'm no expert (but I did stay in a holiday in express last night) but from what I gather from farming relatives is they have become the monopoly in the growing business.

They developed seed that will only grow when treated with their own special blend of fertilizer and bug spray. They drove all the other seed makers into the ground and now if you want to grow all your products have to come from them, and they continue to raise prices.

The last hold out crop was wheat (I think) which up until a few months ago they had not be able to modify. Now that they have cracked that code they basically own everything that is planted that becomes our food.

I saw a list of the products and brands that come from them and its a lot of household names on there. There is an awful lot of control of the nations food supply behind handled by one major corporation. .

Damn ! I would starve to death if I avoided buying from all their companies.....

[spyder]

If you didn't read my big longish explanation on how most GMO's are made in the other thread, well, oh well I guess.

The other reason I really, really dislike Monsanto, is the way that they have grown so big, is partly because of getting rid of the competition illegally. There are tons of video's on exactly what they've done, and if you feel the need, you can watch them. Even if you don't care about the GMO thing (which isn't cross pollination, it's literally genetically modified by scientists, I explained this in my last thing in the GMO thread), Monsanto has pushed out the competition in evil ways. In a lot of cases, the wind has blown pollen from their crops, into the other crops of near by farmers, now making their produce, part of the Monsanto plantation (half of the fruit/vegetable plant). They then sue the farmers for not paying for the rights of these crops (even though it was by complete accident), and win. Monsanto uses their billions of dollars to keep the litigation going, and bankrupting the little guys in court, this has happened again, and again. If you save Monsanto seed, they will sue you, and do the same thing in court, making you bankrupt. So, basically, if you're the little guy, and Monsanto moves in next to you, you're fucked. I also posted most of the people who have either worked for, or still work for Monsanto that are a part of the FDA, you know, the people who are supposed to regulate the food that Monsanto makes... That's just for the FDA, and doesn't include the legal system. The rabbit hole is deep with Monsanto........

[KestrelBike]

...having a government/court backed stranglehold on the agricultural industry, not the supposed effects of GMO's on health...

Can't give a source at this moment (ok I looked real quick and this is the most legitimate that isn't a direct AJones type website I could quickly find: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ..._b_228792.html ) but I used to read a lot about the Revolving Doors between Monsanto and the FDA, the only 'organization' capable of regulating the giant company. So basically, Top Monsanto execs go work for the FDA and vice versa back and forth. IE zero legitimate oversight of what Monsanto's doing.

The danger of a big company like Monsanto having it's way is that when they gain so much power, they start to feel above the law, and their practices and R&D get more aggressive and reckless. Here's something that was not Monsanto's doing but easily could have been: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...29139398001292 and here's the laymen's version : http://web.mst.edu/~microbio/BIO221_...planticola.htm Basically, they engineered this bacteria that would help create awesome fertilizer. Then some joe-schmoe *ASSISTANT* grad student went above and beyond his homework, tested it on soil that actually contained living plants, and voila noticed that *bam* all the plants got killed. This stuff was going to go out into the wild (~1999) and had the theoretical potential for absolutely devastating effects on agriculture.

It's going to sound absurd but I think there's some real validity to it, think of Resident Evil's Umbrella Corporation. Monsanto is like them, but for Agriculture. And while the world was circle-jerking over george zimmerman, Monsanto got the cover-our-ass-no-liability law passed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer_Assurance_Provision

Of all of the companies not to trust, Monsanto's gotta be Numero Uno.