CCW on school grounds

[HunterCO]

This part:
"(3) It shall NOT be an offense under this section if:"

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a CONCEALED WEAPON, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon...

Yep and your point is???? That part of the statue simply states if you have a CCW you can not be arrested for carrying a CW.

By all means point out the part that says you can carry a DEADLY WEAPON in a k-12 school.

[atrdriver1]

Are you sure? Seems like the last time I read the laws it mentioned college campuses as well. I could certainly be wrong about this though, as my less than photographic memory is only showing me "k-12" for sure.

Yes he is right. This section allows permit holders to carry WEAPONS on school grounds all the way through colleges and seminaries:

18-12-105.5.
"(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly...has in such person's possession a DEADLY WEAPON...in or on the real estate...of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary..."

"(3) It shall NOT be an offense under this section if:"

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a CONCEALED WEAPON, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon..."

This section that makes an exception specifically for HANDGUNS only pertains to K-12:

"(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does NOT authorize a person to carry a concealed HANDGUN onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school;..."

[Irving]

It looks to me like the law is written that way because people get the permit to carry a concealed handgun, so they specifically state that even WITH a permit, you can not carry a deadly weapon, even a HANDGUN onto school grounds. After all, does the Colorado CCW allow you to conceal anything but a handgun?

I'm actually curious about this, because many states CCW's will allow you to conceal an AOW as well, which equates to a SBS (Short Barreled Shotgun).

[atrdriver1]

Yep and your point is???? That part of the statue simply states if you have a CCW you can not be arrested for carrying a CW.

By all means point out the part that says you can carry a DEADLY WEAPON in a k-12 school.

You make an excellent point in that the first part of 18-5-105.5 references only "deadly weapons" while the exception made for CCW holders uses the term "concealed weapon".

I would suggest (and therefore admittedly debatably) that because the 18 code definition of "Deadly weapon", as seen below, is so broad as to be all inclusive and would render any attempt to frame a usable definition of "concealed weapon", as existing outside and separate from "Deadly weapon", impossible. This may be why there in fact is no separate definition for just “weapon” in the 18 code.

You seem to concede the point that the law ALLOWS permit holders to carry a "concealed weapon" or "CW" as long as it does not constitute a "Deadly weapon" on school grounds.

I think we have to accept the terms "Deadly weapon" and "weapon" as interchangeable, otherwise the exceptions stated in 18-5-105.5 would be utterly meaningless. That is unless you can think of an example of a "concealed weapon" that falls outside the definition below.

A long day and a couple of beers make me unsure that any of the above even makes sense.


18-1-901
(e) "Deadly weapon" means any of the following which in the manner it is used or intended to be used is capable of producing death or serious bodily injury:

(I) A firearm, whether loaded or unloaded;
(II) A knife;
(III) A bludgeon; or
(IV) Any other weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate.

[HunterCO]

You make an excellent point in that the first part of 18-5-105.5 references only "deadly weapons" while the exception made for CCW holders uses the term "concealed weapon".

I would suggest (and therefore admittedly debatably) that because the 18 code definition of "Deadly weapon", as seen below, is so broad as to be all inclusive and would render any attempt to frame a usable definition of "concealed weapon", as existing outside and separate from "Deadly weapon", impossible. This may be why there in fact is no separate definition for just “weapon” in the 18 code.

You seem to concede the point that the law ALLOWS permit holders to carry a "concealed weapon" or "CW" as long as it does not constitute a "Deadly weapon" on school grounds.

I think we have to accept the terms "Deadly weapon" and "weapon" as interchangeable, otherwise the exceptions stated in 18-5-105.5 would be utterly meaningless. That is unless you can think of an example of a "concealed weapon" that falls outside the definition below.

A long day and a couple of beers make me unsure that any of the above even makes sense.


18-1-901
(e) "Deadly weapon" means any of the following which in the manner it is used or intended to be used is capable of producing death or serious bodily injury:

(I) A firearm, whether loaded or unloaded;
(II) A knife;
(III) A bludgeon; or
(IV) Any other weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate.

Read sturtles post above he understands and you have no clue what your talking about. My advice is to contact an attorney and have them explain the law to you.

You mix and match differnt statues to come to your own conclusion which will get you arrested and in jail.

[atrdriver1]

It looks to me like the law is written that way because people get the permit to carry a concealed handgun, so they specifically state that even WITH a permit, you can not carry a deadly weapon, even a HANDGUN onto school grounds. After all, does the Colorado CCW allow you to conceal anything but a handgun?

I'm actually curious about this, because many states CCW's will allow you to conceal an AOW as well, which equates to a SBS (Short Barreled Shotgun).

Wow you know what. That is the answer to my question. After further reading I think current permits only pertain to handguns. They used to (prior to '03) pertain to knives, bludgeons etc... and that is why my permit reads "Concealed Weapons Permit" and new permits specify only handgun. But your question caused me to dig a little deeper and I found this:

"18-12-216. Permits issued prior to the effective date of this part 2.
(1) A permit issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, shall permanently expire on June 30, 2007, or on the expiration date specified on the permit, whichever occurs first."

My permit has an expiration date in 2012. I think I need to contact my Sheriff and trade it in for one of the new "Handgun Permits". Yikes!

I also think this was the source of Hunter CO's comments. He can feel free to disregard all my verbal (actually textual) diarrhea regarding "Deadly weapons vs. "concealed weapons" etc...

[atrdriver1]

Read sturtles post above he understands and you have no clue what your talking about. My advice is to contact an attorney and have them explain the law to you.

You mix and match differnt statues to come to your own conclusion which will get you arrested and in jail.

I think you are right! See my above posted reply to sturtle.

"Contact an attorney" always good advice. Expensive but solid.

As for mixing and matching... I try not to but they constantly refer to other sections and force a fella to jump around a lot. The revised statutes do not lend themselves to neat a tidy forum threads.

I was thinking they had left a large loop hole, but now I am thinking I was wrong on that.

[atrdriver1]

You lost me what part of DEADLY WEAPON excludes rifles. You can not carry a gun into a K-12 school period. Unless your a police officer or are authorized by the school to do so.

Back when colorado was a may issue state if you had a permit you could in fact carry your gun on school grounds. I had a permit back then however when they wrote the new shall issue law they made it illegal to carry a handgun on school grounds period.

You can enter school grounds with a permit carrying concealed as long as you do not exit your vehicle. If you exit your vehicle you must leave your gun locked inside your vehicle.

I got all hung up on your first sentence here. I should have paid more attention to the rest of it because I think you are exactly right.

BTW, that is a seriously old school character in your avatar...takes me back...

[HunterCO]

Wow you know what. That is the answer to my question. After further reading I think current permits only pertain to handguns. They used to (prior to '03) pertain to knives, bludgeons etc... and that is why my permit reads "Concealed Weapons Permit" and new permits specify only handgun. But your question caused me to dig a little deeper and I found this:

"18-12-216. Permits issued prior to the effective date of this part 2.
(1) A permit issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, shall permanently expire on June 30, 2007, or on the expiration date specified on the permit, whichever occurs first."

My permit has an expiration date in 2012. I think I need to contact my Sheriff and trade it in for one of the new "Handgun Permits". Yikes!

I also think this was the source of Hunter CO's comments. He can feel free to disregard all my verbal (actually textual) diarrhea regarding "Deadly weapons vs. "concealed weapons" etc...

Once again you are making a fool of your self let me ask you this what statute does your permit state you have the right to carry????

What does that statute state you can carry???

Some jurisdictions still say WEAPON some say HANDGUN my permit out of Jeffco still says WEAPON as it did back in the day before the shall issue law.

However it says I am authorized under statute 18-12-203 which means it is nothing more than a HANDGUN permit.

Since you are obviousley to stubborn to get legal advice I guess you can test the waters and let us all know how it go's!!

[atrdriver1]

Interesting. Mine says 18-12-201. I am not sure what if any that small difference between yours and mine makes. I think it still only pertains to handguns. I am still going to call my Sheriff and make sure I don't need to update my permit.

Stubborn. Yes, but not so much so as to think I don't need to clarify this with the Sheriff.