Background Check/Transfers

[BlasterBob]

Has anyone here really closely read and understood the new BGC law and interpret it the same way I do? I believe the new law does NOT actually require the TRANSFERS to be made via FFL but ONLY the required BGC via FFL. The way I read the new BGC law, is that it is NOT necessary for the transfer to go through a FFL once the BGC is received providing the firearm is NOT actually relinquished to the FFL for him/her to enter into their bound book. If the firearm IS actually relinquished to the FFL, then the normal transfer with 4473's must be completed. Appears the FFL, after getting the "OK" on the BGC from CBI and the fee is collected, is supposed to give both the buyer and the seller some sort of document which indicates that the BGC has been made and actually passed with an "OK" from CBI. After that, apparently the seller may decide to NOT have the FFL do the transfer after all and he CAN get his firearm back as long as it has NOT been relinquished to the FFL and is still in his actual possession. If the decision is made to not have the FFL do the transfer, it then appears the transaction may be made directly between buyer and seller (within all applicable laws) as long as it is accomplished within the time period allowed for the BGC to apply .
I am no Attorney and my wording above certainly shows that to be very true and I am certainly NOT attempting to stir up a pile of but this is just the way I understand the new law.

[theGinsue]

This is how I read the law too Bob.

[BlasterBob]

This is how I read the law too Bob.

Thanks Thomas. At least someone of IMPORTANCE agrees with me.

[10mm-man]

Ok, I haven't read it because I opted not to do them as I am a manufacture not a dealer. With that said; what form would I have the guy fill out? 4473 is the only form I have. Which form would I give to the two guys saying everything is Kosher? Don't have one of those either.

Maybe written and interpreted that way, but not the way it is being done. Also, I don't know an FFL that will do a BGC without a gun to log on the form.

[clublights]

Ok, I haven't read it because I opted not to do them as I am a manufacture not a dealer. With that said; what form would I have the guy fill out? 4473 is the only form I have. Which form would I give to the two guys saying everything is Kosher? Don't have one of those either.

Maybe written and interpreted that way, but not the way it is being done. Also, I don't know an FFL that will do a BGC without a gun to log on the form.

That is the problem( well one of them) with the law.. the writers ( knowing nothing on how BGC's work ) didn't worry about that. They didn't care that was no infastructure put in place to handle this they just wanted to pass the law. the devil is in the details.

Yes Bob and Ginsue are interpreting the law how it was written but since there is no way for the FFL do it THAT way they have to do it the other way ( which is how they are doing it ) the FFL must do it this way for all the paperwork to work out right and not get in trouble with the ATF.

OF course there is the other side of the coin that says they knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they wrote the law and to discourage buying and selling of firearms they made it as much of a pain in the ass as they could.

[To Bear Arms]

In order for an FFL to transfer a firearm to an individual a 4473 has to be filled out and a BGC completed. And for that to be done per the law the firearm has to go through the FFL and be logged in and out of the A&D book. In order for a transfer to be legal the actual transfer also has to be at the place of business of the FFL.
The way I do mine per my IOI is:
We all meet at my place of business.
The buyer fills out 4473.
I do not take possession of firearm till AFTER I get a Proceed response.
I submit the app for a BGC on buyer.
If I get a proceed response from CBI the buyer/seller exchange money and I take possession of firearm and enter the info into (In/out)my A&D book.
I hand firearm to buyer. There is no other forms to hand to buyer/seller other than my receipt.

Now if I get a delayed response (I still don't have possession of firearm) it is up to the seller what he wants to do. walk away, wait till I get a response from CBI (up till 3 days), or give me possession.
You can get a delayed response for all sorts of reasons common name, CBI wants to get a little bit deeper, or mis info not matching up with what they have on file.
Now if the seller gives me possession and the next day or whenever i get a response back from CBI saying it was denied then I have to do a 4473/BGC on the seller in order for me to log it out of my book and back to the seller.
But if the seller gives me possession and I get a proceed response from CBI only the buyer needs to come back if the money was exchanged.
But if the seller kept the gun and I get a proceed response then the seller and buyer both have to come back to my place of business in order for a lawful transfer to take place. (Remember I have not taken possession yet so I have no info on the firearm. it has to go in and out of FFL's A&D book and the firearm info has to be recorded on the 4473)

Its best for the seller to keep possession till the proceed response is given.

Hope that helps! Its a pain in the ass for everyone involved! But it is for the children!

[trlcavscout]

From what I seen on the site last night if the "buyer" fails the check the "seller" has to pass a check to regain the gun? It was on the CBI site? So that would mean the dealer has to take possesion of the firearm during the transfer.

[10mm-man]

From what I seen on the site last night if the "buyer" fails the check the "seller" has to pass a check to regain the gun? It was on the CBI site? So that would mean the dealer has to take possesion of the firearm during the transfer.

Yep! to do it right- have to have the serial number on the 4473 to run the BGC.

[BlasterBob]

Yep! to do it right- have to have the serial number on the 4473 to run the BGC.

Sure but the seller can hold on to the firearm while the FFL just observes the serial number, thereby NOT relinquishing ownership. I believe the latest BATFE bulletin (ATF Proc.2013-1) pretty well covers most of this crap.
This ATF Proc. 2013-1 bulletin covers "Recordkeeping and background check procedures for facilitation of private firearms transfers".

[clublights]

Sure but the seller can hold on to the firearm while the FFL just observes the serial number, thereby NOT relinquishing ownership. I believe the latest BATFE bulletin (ATF Proc.2013-1) pretty well covers most of this crap.
This ATF Proc. 2013-1 bulletin covers "Recordkeeping and background check procedures for facilitation of private firearms transfers".

I Found it interesting that the FFL must supply a "locking device" for all handguns transferred.

one more fucking hoop to jump thru...... and added cost to the FFL