Devil's Advocate: What is wrong with the ACA?

[<MADDOG>]

The constitution also says the government is to provide for the general welfare of it's people.

Section 8 of the Constitution does state "provide for the common defence and general welfare of the US..". However, it lists very specific items that (at least in my opinion) that address the general welfare items; and health insurance is not included. But then again, nor is there anything about Fannie, Freddie, Fed Reserve, DOE, etc, etc, etc. We as a nation, past and present, have allowed the Federal government to grow/expand into areas never even considered by the founding fathers. The progressive genie has been out of the bottle for some time, and its damn hard to put him back after 100+ years.

Out of my own ignorance, was the fight over Social Security as fervent then as the fight over ACA now? What about the Medicare/Medicaid acts?

[spqrzilla]

ACA does make it so someone can't be denied coverage due to pre existing conditions, which it's one of the few things in it that I agree with.

So you agree that the legislation should utterly destroy the very concept of "insurance". Got it.

[Ridge]

OK, so now we know you don't know what socialism is.

So what is it, then?

[Ridge]

So you agree that the legislation should utterly destroy the very concept of "insurance". Got it.

What about an infant born with a disease or disorder? Should they never be able to afford healthcare? Should they just be forced to die?

[spqrzilla]

Section 8 of the Constitution does state "provide for the common defence and general welfare of the US..". However, it lists very specific items that (at least in my opinion) that address the general welfare items; and health insurance is not included. But then again, nor is there anything about Fannie, Freddie, Fed Reserve, DOE, etc, etc, etc. We as a nation, past and present, have allowed the Federal government to grow/expand into areas never even considered by the founding fathers. The progressive genie has been out of the bottle for some time, and its damn hard to put him back after 100+ years.

Out of my own ignorance, was the fight over Social Security as fervent then as the fight over ACA now? What about the Medicare/Medicaid acts?

Art 1 Sec 8 - The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States ...


No, Article 1 section 8 says that Congress has the power to collect taxes to pay for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States. That's a power not a duty. And its only describing what Congress can spend money upon, it is not a regulatory power.

[spqrzilla]

So what is it, then?

Socialism is the idea that the collective society has the power to control the means of production. If all commonly provided infrastructure like roads were socialism, you've just destroyed any meaning of the term by having it encompass all forms of government, including Libertarianism.

[spqrzilla]

What about an infant born with a disease or disorder? Should they never be able to afford healthcare? Should they just be forced to die?

Well, you have complete command of the powers of the logical fallacies of non sequitur and strawman.

Not to mention you've done the usual rhetorical trick of conflating health care insurance and health care. I submit to you that you don't understand the topic of discussion.

[<MADDOG>]

ACA does make it so someone can't be denied coverage due to pre existing conditions, which it's one of the few things in it that I agree with.

I understand the point; but at the core of the issue is the government mandating that a business insure a risk. Are Kaiser, Aetna, etc, going to sacrifice their business models and profit margins because they have to insure high risk customers? I think not. The healthy are/will be paying for the sick. Which brings us the the "single payer" debate...

[<MADDOG>]

Art 1 Sec 8 - The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States ...


No, Article 1 section 8 says that Congress has the power to collect taxes to pay for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States. That's a power not a duty. And its only describing what Congress can spend money upon, it is not a regulatory power.

I'm agreeing with you 100%. Perhaps my message was lost out of my ineptness...

[spqrzilla]

Meanwhile, Obamacare's destruction of the health care industry continues:
http://twitchy.com/2013/09/21/health...youre-screwed/