HELP: SOLDIER SENTENCED 20 YEARS FOR KILLING THE ENEMIES!!!

[Sharpienads]

This is the problem with the war in Afghanistan as well as what we faced in Iraq. You don't have an enemy that dresses in uniform and can be easily identified. We are making our Soldiers make life and death decisions and then we are holding them accountable for those decisions. We just need to stop and bring these kids home.

Yup.

[sabot_round]

Just another way of the administration being apologetic to our enemies. When I was in Afghanistan we had too many RoE restrictions that could get us killed without a chance for self defense.

We still do.

[Joe_K]

To a certain extent yes, the ROE's can be limiting and even dangerous but so can butterbars. From my time in the sandbox I have seen Lt's order Marines to shoot first and ask questions later. Dont lay all the blame on the politicians. We are losing this war because we are not adapting or being proactive enough in fighting the Taliban/ AQ. These people never signed the hague/ geneva conventions nor do they abide by any "rules of war" To win this war we must think and fight as they do but with a higher moral standard and respect for human life. Ditching the MRAPs, body armor and uniforms and patrolling the shit out of the AO under cover of darkness or disguised as the ANP/ ANA, or local farmers/ workers will get us further then any JDAM, GPS, AC 130, or MRAP ever will.
Our troops for the most part are being used as Beat Cops hoping to randomly stumble upon some major players and take them out, and if not that project strength behind sandbags, razor wire, chobham armor, and body armor. Who finds the BAD bad guys on Americas streets? Beat cops or undercover guys? All that said given the constraints our troops face If the Lt gave the order to fire on individuals not armed or actively assisting the OPFOR then he was in the wrong and must pay for his poor judgment.

To prevent these things from happening either;
1. Leave the entire region to the mercy of themselves/ foreign invaders
2. Go undercover and eradicate these bastards for the next 20-100 years.
Really no other ways that I see as plausible or possible. Thoughts?


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[sabot_round]

To a certain extent yes, the ROE's can be limiting and even dangerous but so can butterbars. From my time in the sandbox I have seen Lt's order Marines to shoot first and ask questions later. Dont lay all the blame on the politicians.

Really??

We are losing this war because we are not adapting or being proactive enough in fighting the Taliban/ AQ. These people never signed the hague/ geneva conventions nor do they abide by any "rules of war" To win this war we must think and fight as they do but with a higher moral standard and respect for human life. Ditching the MRAPs, body armor and uniforms and patrolling the shit out of the AO under cover of darkness or disguised as the ANP/ ANA, or local farmers/ workers will get us further then any JDAM, GPS, AC 130, or MRAP ever will.

Tell that to the same politicians that you said not to blame.

Our troops for the most part are being used as Beat Cops hoping to randomly stumble upon some major players and take them out

Guess by who?? POLITICIANS!!

and if not that project strength behind sandbags, razor wire, chobham armor, and body armor. Who finds the BAD bad guys on Americas streets? Beat cops or undercover guys? All that said given the constraints our troops face If the Lt gave the order to fire on individuals not armed or actively assisting the OPFOR then he was in the wrong and must pay for his poor judgment.

All constraints in this war are brought to us byyyyyy: Politicians

I'm exhausted now. I'm going to bed. I have to deal with more politics tomorrow!!

SR

[Joe_K]

All constraints in this war are brought to us byyyyyy: Politicians!

SR[/QUOTE]

False: many are brought on by overly timid commanders at the company and higher levels. While politicians, the Taliban/AQ, & the complicent American public all have some blame for the War in Afghanistan it is certainly not any one groups sole responsibilty for the mayhem that occurs there day in and day out. A USMC Col and in some aituations Major has the power to determine force protection levels and small unit tactics and SOPs. People are still accountable for their actions. We can all armchair this all day but the fact is the tactics used by the U.S Military is not win, win, win but stay alive long enough to turn this shit hole AO over to the next unlucky group of SOBs that get rotated in.

[sabot_round]

False: many are brought on by overly timid commanders at the company and higher levels. While politicians, the Taliban/AQ, & the complicent American public all have some blame for the War in Afghanistan it is certainly not any one groups sole responsibilty for the mayhem that occurs there day in and day out. A USMC Col and in some aituations Major has the power to determine force protection levels and small unit tactics and SOPs. People are still accountable for their actions. We can all armchair this all day but the fact is the tactics used by the U.S Military is not win, win, win but stay alive long enough to turn this shit hole AO over to the next unlucky group of SOBs that get rotated in.

Really? Does the name Stanley A. McChrystal ring the bell?? It is obvious that you don't have a complete understanding of how SOP's work, and how they relate to higher HQ's. You might be the one that armchairs this to the ground while I'm right here pounding the ground. So please spare me the lecture about tactics and SOP's.

[Clint45]

All constraints in this war are brought to us byyyyyy: Politicians!

SR

False: many are brought on by overly timid commanders at the company and higher levels.

Some would posit that REMF and pogue brass are just another form of politician, elitist West Point drones concerned primarily with making the numbers look good to ensure their next promotion, with no real connection to the combat troops other than passing along orders from their air conditioned offices.

[Joe_K]

Is it politicians ordering troops to wear 100-150 lbs of gear? Is it politicians sending our troops on 8 hr daytime patrols that couldnt be more obvious to every local within eyesight or hearing range? Or is it politicians telling our troops when they can or cant leave the wire, when they can get CAS or not? Is it politicians forcing our men and women at gunpoint to join the Military in the first place? We that have served or are still currently serving are not victims. We knew the politics of our Nation when we signed over ourselves. So please spare me the whoa art us bs. Remember the cadence " this is what you asked for!"? Well we did. But when our leaders ( military not political) care more about theyre careers then the Men and Women they lead we get something we never hoped for. Gen. Mcchrystal and select General officers excepted. Our officers care way to much about the book. We are in a boxing match and the full birds and stars are outside the ring critqueing our shorts, haircut, stance, selection of footwear, and choice of punch or strike. Generals and Col and Majors have waaaay more power then they let on. I have been in contact with a numerically superior force and had a UAV asset on site. The requested ordanance was denied for no other reason than our 6 was a vagina. He was not a politician and neither was his boss. And yes he had final say in ordance used I.E. 60/81's, 120's, 155's, JDAMS, UAV's ect. My unit was lucky we had no casualties that day, but the 15+ Taliban that escaped went on to wound and kill Marines, ANA/ANP, and civilians. I 100% sympathize and agree with your distrust and dislike for our current political public servants. But dont forget that sometimes the enemy closest to you can look like a friend.


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[Joe_K]

+ 1000 Clint 45


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[brokenscout]

This is the problem with the war in Afghanistan as well as what we faced in Iraq. You don't have an enemy that dresses in uniform and can be easily identified. We are making our Soldiers make life and death decisions and then we are holding them accountable for those decisions. We just need to stop and bring these kids home.

Well said.