Assignment to the trust - when?

[68Guy]

OK, I have seen multiple threads on "here is how you submit a Form 1 for an SBR using a trust" and one thing that just doesn't seem very clear to me is whether or not I am to include the (not yet approved) NFA item to the form when I submit it or after I get formal ATF stamp approving it? I see different people post that you have to "fund" the trust with the serial number of a bill but wouldnt the $100 lower receiver be the same? So basically, I have the engraved stripped lower, have the trust, have the forms filled out and just want to know if I have to put the item and ser# of the lower on the form before I send it? HELP NFA GURUs!! (oh and thanks in advance - this forum has been great for helping me get my Form 4 for the suppressor submitted).

[mtnrider]

I did not include the SBR until I receive the stamp. I put a dollar bill on my inventory just to have something there prior to sending it in. You might be able to get away with putting lower on there but I would go with the proven method of the dollar

With that said, didn't Obama sign something that put a end to the trust route?

[Lurch]

Just put a dollar on there like mtnrider says. You need to have the trust funded for it to be valid. Also the trust going away thing is in the works so I would get your stuff in sooner then later. Unless your sheriff will sign off on them then don't worry about it now.

[68Guy]

I did not include the SBR until I receive the stamp. I put a dollar bill on my inventory just to have something there prior to sending it in. You might be able to get away with putting lower on there but I would go with the proven method of the dollar

With that said, didn't Obama sign something that put a end to the trust route?

Thanks I will do that and put the dollar away in my safe with the trust. As far as the Trust going away, my understanding (note I am not a lawyer and I didnt stay at a Holiday Inn last night so take it for what it is worth $0.0) is that you would still be able to use a trust to protect the assets and allow them to be transferred to family members so they can legally be in posession of them. What would change is that anytime a class 3 item is added to the trust, EVERYONE in the trust has to get a background check done. So another suppressor means both my wife and I would have to go get the check done to take posession. Would that do away with the need for a trust? No, because it still protects family members and whomever else you put in the trust so they can handle and possess the class 3 items in case of your untimely demise. Just makes it way more complicated (as all recent liberal laws seem to do lately).

[brutal]

I did not include the SBR until I receive the stamp. I put a dollar bill on my inventory just to have something there prior to sending it in. You might be able to get away with putting lower on there but I would go with the proven method of the dollar

With that said, didn't Obama sign something that put a end to the trust route?

That's going to take a while to get implemented, but see below (kinda). I don't believe the trust is going away, I believe it is going to require background checks on every trustee and co-trustee whenever something goes in - thereby effectively killing the usefulness of a trust. Apparently all the gang bangers are using trusts to forgo background checks.

Just put a dollar on there like mtnrider says. You need to have the trust funded for it to be valid. Also the trust going away thing is in the works so I would get your stuff in sooner then later. Unless your sheriff will sign off on them then don't worry about it now.

You only send in what is currently in the trust.

I used a $2 bill to fund mine. It should be specified in the trust documents. The fund item and serial number should be the first thing on your schedule A.

I'm curious how you sent in a form 4 if you don't have the trust already funded?

[Eric P]

I just transferred two lowers to my trust that I intend to get a SBR stamps for.

I think with Colorado's new law these should be owned by the trust prior to receiving the stamp so that you are not in a grey area of having to transfer the newly SBRed lowers into the trust and possibly having to re-apply for "transferring" the SBR lowers from you to your trust.

[DeusExMachina]

I transferred some random crap to my trust when applying for my first can. After I received the stamp, I listed only the can.

Trusts are weird in the sense that things can be added and removed from it at will, where not regulated by law (such as NFA items).

[SAnd]

The Trust is making and registering a non-NFA gun into a NFA SBR. The Trust can not make and register a NFA SBR out of a gun it does not own. The Trust must list it to own the gun. So I always list the regular gun on my Trust Schedule A before I send it in. That way the ATF knows the Trust owns it.

That's my line of thinking anyway. Who knows how the twisted mind of a bureaucrat thinks.

[DeusExMachina]

So how do you explain buying a suppressor? Or building one? You are transferring it to the trust via the ATF. It is not necessary for the trust to own it first. Which is impossible in most cases.

[SAnd]

So how do you explain buying a suppressor? Or building one? You are transferring it to the trust via the ATF. It is not necessary for the trust to own it first. Which is impossible in most cases.

Form 1 is making and registering a NFA item. A Form 4 transfers an already existing NFA registered item.

When a Trust makes and registers a NFA item from scratch, silencer or SBR, using a Form 1, the Trust is making and registering a NFA item that did not exist before. The Trust has to have the approved Form 1 in hand before it cuts metal. A regular non-NFA Title 1 gun must be owned by the Trust when it makes the SBR from a regular Title 1 gun.

You have to have an approved Form 1 for the Trust before cutting metal if the Trust is using a Form 1 to make and register a SBR from a 80% lower receiver. The Trust should own the lower receiver when it makes and registers a SBR made from a Colt lower receiver. The Trust can own the non-NFA lower. The Trust can't put a short upper on the lower until they have an approved Form 1 in hand.

A Trust can't possess an already registered NFA item until the transfer to the Trust is approved through a Form 4 transfer. For example, a Gemtec suppressor is already a NFA registered item. You are transferring, not making and registering, a registered silencer to the Trust.

I hope this helps.

I am not a lawyer. This is just my understanding of the laws and regulations.