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  1. 12-11-2013, 17:51 #21
    OneGuy67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingman View Post
    See Hafelfinger v. Dist. Court which reads:
    "In the context of a deferred judgment and sentence, a "conviction" occurs upon the acceptance by the trial court of the defendant's plea of guilty; whereas, a "judgment of conviction" occurs, if at all, when it is determined that the defendant has violated the conditions of the deferred judgment and sentence, in which case the trial court must impose a sentence."

    See also People v. Allaire which reads:

    "Section 18-12-108 applies to persons “previously convicted.” It contains no reference to judgment or judgment of conviction. We conclude that the phrase “previously convicted,” in § 18-12-108 does not refer to a previous judgment of conviction. The element is satisfied by proof of a guilty plea and deferred judgment; a judgment of conviction and sentencing are not required"

    I am not a lawyer and I'm not going to speculate on how your friend and K may be different, but the precedent on this matter suggests that your friend may wish to consult an attorney regarding the legality of his firearm possession. My limited understanding is that this situation does not create an entry in any database that will prevent one from passing the background check, but that possession remains illegal unless (and this is a gray area) the court records are sealed. The specifics of K's case (and your friend's as you describe it) mean that those records aren't eligible for sealing. You can contact me via PM if you want more explanation.
    Hafelfinger is a 1984 decision and there have been a number of decisions since based upon it. None of them are indicative of how you are interpreting it from what I've read so far.

    Upon charging in court, there is a record of the original charges that are available in CCIC/NCIC that the Instacheck techs in CBI immediately see, to include whether they are felonies or misdemeanors. They then have to research the finality of the case to its conclusion through the same court record. If that record shows a dismissal, they will authorize a purchase. Court records are only sealed from the general public, not law enforcement, so your point about sealing isn't correct.
    “Every good citizen makes his country's honor his own, and cherishes it not only as precious but as sacred. He is willing to risk his life in its defense and is conscious that he gains protection while he gives it.” Andrew Jackson

    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
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  2. 12-11-2013, 18:08 #22
    clublights
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGuy67 View Post
    Hafelfinger is a 1984 decision and there have been a number of decisions since based upon it. None of them are indicative of how you are interpreting it from what I've read so far.

    Upon charging in court, there is a record of the original charges that are available in CCIC/NCIC that the Instacheck techs in CBI immediately see, to include whether they are felonies or misdemeanors. They then have to research the finality of the case to its conclusion through the same court record. If that record shows a dismissal, they will authorize a purchase. Court records are only sealed from the general public, not law enforcement, so your point about sealing isn't correct.

    Incorrect.

    The NCIC has the court stuff on it .


    I know because that is what is on mine.
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  3. 12-11-2013, 18:38 #23
    OneGuy67
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    Quote Originally Posted by clublights View Post
    Incorrect.

    The NCIC has the court stuff on it .


    I know because that is what is on mine.
    Sigh...isn't that what I said "They then have to research the finality of the case to its conclusion through the same court record." If you've ever actually seen a court record in CCIC/NCIC, you would know one has to scroll through the court record until you obtain the conclusion of the court case. At the end of the court record, it will show the plea, the conviction, the court's determination, any fees, etc.

    And just to be clear, I look at these court records nearly every single day.
    “Every good citizen makes his country's honor his own, and cherishes it not only as precious but as sacred. He is willing to risk his life in its defense and is conscious that he gains protection while he gives it.” Andrew Jackson

    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
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  4. 12-11-2013, 18:50 #24
    OneGuy67
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    Maybe one of our member attorneys like spqrzilla can assist in the interpretation of the state supreme court decision...
    “Every good citizen makes his country's honor his own, and cherishes it not only as precious but as sacred. He is willing to risk his life in its defense and is conscious that he gains protection while he gives it.” Andrew Jackson

    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
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  5. 12-11-2013, 18:53 #25
    flogger
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    I'd fight the felony charges for all it's worth. You have to ask yourself what you would have done if you were the neighbor.
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  6. 12-11-2013, 19:00 #26
    clublights
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGuy67 View Post
    Sigh...isn't that what I said "They then have to research the finality of the case to its conclusion through the same court record." If you've ever actually seen a court record in CCIC/NCIC, you would know one has to scroll through the court record until you obtain the conclusion of the court case. At the end of the court record, it will show the plea, the conviction, the court's determination, any fees, etc.

    And just to be clear, I look at these court records nearly every single day.

    My NCIC ( which I have a copy of right here )


    has the arrest .. then the court out come. all on the same piece of paper ( well technically it is on a second sheet but that is because of the first one running out of lines) not much to research it is literally right there.
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  7. 12-11-2013, 19:01 #27
    JM Ver. 2.0
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    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I'd fight the felony charges for all it's worth. You have to ask yourself what you would have done if you were the neighbor.
    Went ape shit and probably called the police.

    People like "K" are the ones that give gun owners a bad name.....

    Alcohol and guns don't mix...

    Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.
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  8. 12-11-2013, 19:05 #28
    OneGuy67
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    Quote Originally Posted by clublights View Post
    My NCIC ( which I have a copy of right here )


    has the arrest .. then the court out come. all on the same piece of paper ( well technically it is on a second sheet but that is because of the first one running out of lines) not much to research it is literally right there.
    And not to beat a dead horse, but NCIC actually doesn't keep any records; it is a clearinghouse for state held and federally held records. When one accesses NCIC, it will provide you with information on that particular party and whether they have a criminal history and in what state and provide a state Criminal History ID number for that person. You then request information from that particular state.
    “Every good citizen makes his country's honor his own, and cherishes it not only as precious but as sacred. He is willing to risk his life in its defense and is conscious that he gains protection while he gives it.” Andrew Jackson

    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
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  9. 12-11-2013, 19:07 #29
    OneGuy67
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    Some states do put dispositions on their criminal histories, but not all do and they are not always accurate. In Colorado, it is hit or miss. The actual court case is looked up in COCourts or ICON or CCIC to determine the disposition.

    So what you possess is actually a copy of that particular state's record.
    “Every good citizen makes his country's honor his own, and cherishes it not only as precious but as sacred. He is willing to risk his life in its defense and is conscious that he gains protection while he gives it.” Andrew Jackson

    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
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  10. 12-11-2013, 19:12 #30
    clublights
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    Ok Fair ..


    I should have said " FBI Report" ( FBI Letter head and watermark thru out)

    since I went had prints taken and sent them to the FBI and they sent me this report ( well sent it to the folks that took my prints... then they gave it to me ... took all of 20 mins)

    And the case was in New Mexico . so maybe that is why we are " butting heads"
    Last edited by clublights; 12-11-2013 at 19:14.
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