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  1. #1
    Plinker Ingman's Avatar
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    Default How Boulder County screwed my friend out of ever owning firearms again.

    Please do not quote the below if you reply. I would like to maintain the ability to edit this for accuracy if needed.

    I'm going to tell the story of how a friend of mine was screwed over by Boulder County. I have his permission to post about what happened. Many details are being glossed over or omitted, but this should be a fairly accurate account of the general facts.

    To keep from typing "my friend" over and over, I'm going to call him "K" (after Josef K in The Trial by Kafka).

    One evening K was in his apartment and had an unintended discharge of his firearm. I'm purposely using the word "unintended" as it sidesteps the "negligent" vs "accidental" discussion. There was never any evidence to the contrary of it being unintended. The bullet entered an adjacent apartment. There were no injuries and there was no property damage other than to the wall. K went to the neighbor's apartment, they had a brief discussion, and then K returned to his apartment. The neighbor called the police. When the police arrived K answered a few of their questions, including answering "yes" to "have you had anything to drink tonight?". He declined permission to police to enter his apartment. K was arrested, a warrant to search his apartment was obtained, and his firearm collection was seized. There was never any sort of test given to determine blood alcohol content.

    Ask yourself what you would expect the legal outcome of these events to be?

    After K obtained bail he hired an attorney to represent him. It took some time for the Boulder County District Attorney to decide what the charges would be, but eventually K was charged with a long list of violations. The key violations he was charged with were the felony charge of "Illegal discharge of a firearm" (CRS 18-12-107.5) and the misdemeanor charge of "Prohibited use of weapons" (CRS 18-12-106). The felony charge took K quite by surprise. While nobody ever wants to have an unintended discharge, one wouldn't expect that such an event would be treated as a felony.

    CRS 18-12.107.5 was passed in 1993 as part of an act dealing with juvenile and gang-related crime. It applies to a person who "knowingly or recklessly discharges a firearm into any dwelling or any other building or occupied structure". There is Colorado court precedent that states it "was intended to punish random drive-by and walk-by gunfire directed at occupied structures or vehicles from outside such premises or vehicles".

    CRS 18-12-106 applies to several things, including a person who "recklessly or with criminal negligence .. discharges a firearm" or "has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor".

    K instructed his attorney to seek a plea bargain that did not involve a felony charge. The DA offered a deferred sentence for the felony charge if K were to plead guilty to the misdemeanor.

    At this point it is necessary to discuss what a deferred sentence is in the State of Colorado. The basic idea is that the defendant makes a guilty plea to the court, but that the court does not actually issue a judgment of guilty. The defendant then has to satisfy the particular terms of the deferred sentence; usually some period of time on probation, perhaps some amount of community service, perhaps pay some sort of restitution. After the completion of the terms of the deferred sentence the defendant withdraws the guilty plea and the charges involved are dismissed.

    What you think the long-term consequences of a deferred sentence are, after the guilty plea has been withdrawn and the charges are dismissed?

    It turns out that Colorado law makes a distinction between "conviction" and "judgment of conviction". Once that initial guilty plea is made, you are forever considered to be "convicted", even if the plea is later withdrawn and no "judgment of conviction" is ever issued by a court. Colorado precedent establishes that once you complete a felony deferred sentence you can never again possess firearms in Colorado. Federal law, at least as interpreted by the ATF, says that you can also never possess firearms in any other state.

    So, back to my friend K. After some research he realizes what the full consequences of this plea bargain will be. Effectively, although the felony charges will ultimately be dismissed, he will forever be considered a felon by certain parts of the criminal code (there are other effects beyond firearms). K's attorney makes some attempts to obtain a more favorable plea bargain, but the DA does not budge from the initial offer.

    At this point, K has spent approximately $30k on this unintended discharge case. He has been offered a plea bargain that will forever prohibit him from possessing firearms. Taking the case to court will cost an additional $100k, and while his attorney thinks the felony charge can be beat it isn't assured.

    What would you do given this choice?

    K took the plea.

    When I look at this situation, as an outsider, I can't fault K for the decision he made. But I am astonished and outraged that the Boulder County District Attorney decided to treat this as a felony case and hold the threat of felony prosecution over K's head. In my opinion, the misdemeanor 18-12-106 statute is what should have covered this situation; it deals with both the discharge of a firearm and the accused possession while intoxicated. The felony 18-12.107.5 statute was not used as intended (to punish gang-related drive-by shootings) but was instead used to treat an unintended discharge as a felony.

    And that, my friends, is how Boulder County screwed K out of ever owning firearms again.

    Please do not quote the above if you reply. I would like to maintain the ability to edit this for accuracy if needed.
    Last edited by Ingman; 12-11-2013 at 16:17.

  2. #2
    flyingcouch
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    Mistakes with firearms are not an option, for many reasons. This situations sucks on many levels.

  3. #3
    Machine Gunner merl's Avatar
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    What would I do, I'll answer that if it happens.. damn.

    Doubt it'd actually do anything but I suggest that goes to every newspaper and other media outlet with some minor changes (How Boulder County made my friend a Felon). Throwing every charge at someone knowing most wont stick is common though. Law knows you cannot afford to fight it and the more things they toss on initially the better the resulting plea.

  4. #4
    Grand Master Know It All Sawin's Avatar
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    Thanks for the story and the insight into how terribly misaligned at least one DA in CO is... It thoroughly disgusts me but I am not exactly surprised.

    I do have 1 question however... if K had answered "No", that he had not had any alcohol that evening, would the story and/or charges have ended differently?
    Please leave any relevant feedback here:
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  5. #5
    The "Godfather" of COAR Great-Kazoo's Avatar
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    When the police arrived K answered a few of their questions, including answering "yes" to "have you had anything to drink tonight?".

    The YES AND answering their questions, were his 1st mistake.

    ATTORNEY.................. NEVER ADMIT TO ANYTHING................................ATTORNEY.
    The Great Kazoo's Feedback

    "when you're happy you enjoy the melody but, when you're broken you understand the lyrics".

  6. #6
    Machine Gunner Squeeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    When the police arrived K answered a few of their questions, including answering "yes" to "have you had anything to drink tonight?".

    The YES AND answering their questions, were his 1st mistake.

    ATTORNEY.................. NEVER ADMIT TO ANYTHING................................ATTORNEY.
    ^^^THIS.

    This is a hell of a hard lessoned learned. ANY time I'm handling my firearms, I make sure there's been no drinking involved. Second, I also make sure I use "snap caps" or "dummy rounds" when conducting dry-fire practice. If you give Uncle Murphy an opportunity to walk in and shit on your day...he will.
    The character of a man can be judged by how he treats those who can do nothing for him

  7. #7
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    I know a state trooper from Jeffco County who did the same thing. He had negligent discharge while drinking and handling a pistol. The Arvada policia showed up and just told him not to do it again.
    Last edited by DavieD55; 12-12-2013 at 21:04.

  8. #8
    Grand Master Know It All newracer's Avatar
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    His first mistake was talking to the police without an attorney.

  9. #9
    Kia Driver
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    Quote Originally Posted by newracer View Post
    His first mistake was talking to the police without an attorney.
    Yep.

    Nobody ever did 5-10 for asserting their right to remain silent.

  10. #10
    Sig Fantastic Ronin13's Avatar
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    It's a crap situation either way you slice it. Had he not taken the plea and actually taken the case to trial, I'm pretty sure, it being Boulder and all, he would run the risk of a felony conviction and not only lose the firearms right, but a host of others too... But is the risk worth it? He could have beaten the felony charge and only been convicted of the M2 which carries a county sentence of 3-12 months if the judge feels like imposing a jail sentence. Not sure what I would have done if I were in that situation, but odds are I'd probably take the fight to court instead of letting the DA screw me over (which I know a few here in Jeffco, odds are they'd probably work something more favorable out).
    "There is no news in the truth, and no truth in the news."
    "The revolution will not be televised... Instead it will be filmed from multiple angles via cell phone cameras, promptly uploaded to YouTube, Tweeted about, and then shared on Facebook, pending a Wi-Fi connection."

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