Another College Shooting Today

[screagle2]

That'll teach that hard ass boss to listen.

Really???? Over 5000 posts, and you have nothing more constructive than that?????

Our son is a student in the Engineering school, and was in an adjacent building 4-500 yards away. He is a strong constitutionalist, and supporter of ALL of the BIll of RIghts, not just the 2nd Ammendment. If it were legal, he would have a CCW permit.

Why why is no one offering well thought ideas as to how to deal with the obvious mental health issues that precipitate these acts?

How about discussion regarding electing judges that understand, and believe that the innocent also have rights, and those rights should not be usurped by the criminal?

Why is there no one asking if video games have a bearing on the acceptance of this type of violence, and how to curb that influence?

Why no discourse in regards to the privacy act, and how it effectively negates potential intervention with people who show tendencies towards these horrendous acts? Think about the Aurora killer, and his protections of privacy, as well as what has come out in the Arapahoe case.

I am NOT, nor is my son, a supporter of gun free zones, but consider this. I went to college I 1975, and even then, firearms were NOT allowed on most campuses, yet we did not see these things happening. Neither of us believe that in this specific case, the outcome would have much chance of being different, had the victim been armed. The reason being, as pointed out in the only post that seems to have been thought out, this was a murder, an execution, and the victim could not have responded quickly enough.
I do however believe that a well trained, and armed bystander might well have been able to stop more people being harmed, had that been the objective of the shooter.

IU, which is the CU of Indiana, has recognized the right of their students to provide protection for themselves in the manner of CCW, if they have successfully completed a qualified course., Think about that for a minute... Why IU, and not CU? I am going to address this with the regents at Purdue, and I will do my level best, to, so through pragmatic conversation.

I suspect that that before now, most above, are flaming me for being liberal or GC advocate etc., etc., which I am neither. I will wager that my efforts to preserve our rights, and our Constitution, are not insignificant. I have waited until, today to,respond for several reasons. I wanted to make certain that my emotions are somewhat In check, and I had hoped for meaningful posts, not just cynical, pissing in the wind as to what we do not like. I had hoped to gain more ideas, and achieve some balance, rather than pure hatred for the person who did this

I strongly believe that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, must be defended at all cost.
I also believe that these senseless acts of violence, must be brought under control, not only to preserve our society, but also to quiet some of the efforts to weaken or disregard the 2nd Ammendment,

Flame me, ban me, do, as you will, but I am willing to wager that few, if any of you have considered viable, workable solutions to these things, while also considering changing my EDC.

I believe there are solutions, but no matter how much better it may make us feel to bitch and moan and complain, that release. is all there is.

To make light of these acts however, does provide strength to the arguments that others use to take away our rights.

[HoneyBadger]

Really???? Over 5000 posts, and you have nothing more constructive than that?????

Our son is a student in the Engineering school, and was in an adjacent building 4-500 yards away. He is a strong constitutionalist, and supporter of ALL of the BIll of RIghts, not just the 2nd Ammendment. If it were legal, he would have a CCW permit.

Why why is no one offering well thought ideas as to how to deal with the obvious mental health issues that precipitate these acts?

How about discussion regarding electing judges that understand, and believe that the innocent also have rights, and those rights should not be usurped by the criminal?

Why is there no one asking if video games have a bearing on the acceptance of this type of violence, and how to curb that influence?

Why no discourse in regards to the privacy act, and how it effectively negates potential intervention with people who show tendencies towards these horrendous acts? Think about the Aurora killer, and his protections of privacy, as well as what has come out in the Arapahoe case.

I am NOT, nor is my son, a supporter of gun free zones, but consider this. I went to college I 1975, and even then, firearms were NOT allowed on most campuses, yet we did not see these things happening. Neither of us believe that in this specific case, the outcome would have much chance of being different, had the victim been armed. The reason being, as pointed out in the only post that seems to have been thought out, this was a murder, an execution, and the victim could not have responded quickly enough.
I do however believe that a well trained, and armed bystander might well have been able to stop more people being harmed, had that been the objective of the shooter.

IU, which is the CU of Indiana, has recognized the right of their students to provide protection for themselves in the manner of CCW, if they have successfully completed a qualified course., Think about that for a minute... Why IU, and not CU? I am going to address this with the regents at Purdue, and I will do my level best, to, so through pragmatic conversation.

I suspect that that before now, most above, are flaming me for being liberal or GC advocate etc., etc., which I am neither. I will wager that my efforts to preserve our rights, and our Constitution, are not insignificant. I have waited until, today to,respond for several reasons. I wanted to make certain that my emotions are somewhat In check, and I had hoped for meaningful posts, not just cynical, pissing in the wind as to what we do not like. I had hoped to gain more ideas, and achieve some balance, rather than pure hatred for the person who did this

I strongly believe that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, must be defended at all cost.
I also believe that these senseless acts of violence, must be brought under control, not only to preserve our society, but also to quiet some of the efforts to weaken or disregard the 2nd Ammendment,

Flame me, ban me, do, as you will, but I am willing to wager that few, if any of you have considered viable, workable solutions to these things, while also considering changing my EDC.

I believe there are solutions, but no matter how much better it may make us feel to bitch and moan and complain, that release. is all there is.

To make light of these acts however, does provide strength to the arguments that others use to take away our rights.

lol where have you been for the past 4 years??




And by that I mean why haven't you contributed to or even seen the hundreds of discussions of these issues that we've already had? Mtn.man probably doesn't have anything more constructive to add because it's all already been said numerous times. Hundreds of times.

Welcome to the forum.

[XC700116]

Really???? Over 5000 posts, and you have nothing more constructive than that?????

Our son is a student in the Engineering school, and was in an adjacent building 4-500 yards away. He is a strong constitutionalist, and supporter of ALL of the BIll of RIghts, not just the 2nd Ammendment. If it were legal, he would have a CCW permit.

Why why is no one offering well thought ideas as to how to deal with the obvious mental health issues that precipitate these acts?
As mentioned, it's been hashed and re-hashed a hundred times already
How about discussion regarding electing judges that understand, and believe that the innocent also have rights, and those rights should not be usurped by the criminal?

Why is there no one asking if video games have a bearing on the acceptance of this type of violence, and how to curb that influence?

Been done already, and honestly, the answer is raise your kids instead of expecting the nanny state to do it (not you specifically, in general)

Why no discourse in regards to the privacy act, and how it effectively negates potential intervention with people who show tendencies towards these horrendous acts? Think about the Aurora killer, and his protections of privacy, as well as what has come out in the Arapahoe case.

So privacy and the 1st and 4th amendments should just be tossed in the name of safety?? I believe we are better than that. The problem lies with the selective enforcement of the safeguards already in place.

I am NOT, nor is my son, a supporter of gun free zones, but consider this. I went to college I 1975, and even then, firearms were NOT allowed on most campuses, yet we did not see these things happening. Neither of us believe that in this specific case, the outcome would have much chance of being different, had the victim been armed. The reason being, as pointed out in the only post that seems to have been thought out, this was a murder, an execution, and the victim could not have responded quickly enough.
I do however believe that a well trained, and armed bystander might well have been able to stop more people being harmed, had that been the objective of the shooter.

To the statement in bold, I disagree, you just didn't hear about it because of the lack of instant national headlines like we have today. See the 1966 Bell tower shooting in Austin Texas if you need an example. In 1975 unless you were in the immediate area or had family or friends at Purdue, you wouldn't have even heard about this.

IU, which is the CU of Indiana, has recognized the right of their students to provide protection for themselves in the manner of CCW, if they have successfully completed a qualified course., Think about that for a minute... Why IU, and not CU? I am going to address this with the regents at Purdue, and I will do my level best, to, so through pragmatic conversation.

Valid and good points, you won't get many arguments here on this one.

I suspect that that before now, most above, are flaming me for being liberal or GC advocate etc., etc., which I am neither. I will wager that my efforts to preserve our rights, and our Constitution, are not insignificant. I have waited until, today to,respond for several reasons. I wanted to make certain that my emotions are somewhat In check, and I had hoped for meaningful posts, not just cynical, pissing in the wind as to what we do not like. I had hoped to gain more ideas, and achieve some balance, rather than pure hatred for the person who did this

I strongly believe that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, must be defended at all cost.
I also believe that these senseless acts of violence, must be brought under control, not only to preserve our society, but also to quiet some of the efforts to weaken or disregard the 2nd Ammendment,

Flame me, ban me, do, as you will, but I am willing to wager that few, if any of you have considered viable, workable solutions to these things, while also considering changing my EDC.

I believe there are solutions, but no matter how much better it may make us feel to bitch and moan and complain, that release. is all there is.

To make light of these acts however, does provide strength to the arguments that others use to take away our rights.

I get it, you're pissed at the fact that your son just had this happen in his building and like any good parent you're reacting to the fact that your son is going to a fairly prestigious school and with all that it took and takes to get/go there, and how responsible he has to be for everything he does, he's not allowed to be responsible for his own safety and self defense. I'd be pissed too. But honestly with the constant hammering of each and every murder that takes place in or around a school being the daily poster subject for gun control, most here have just become extremely weary of the subject and have become cynical about it. Simple fact is with the way society is going, we're going to see more of this and not less. Just look around, those that take personal responsibility for themselves and their actions are becoming a rare breed. It's sad, it sucks, it's disheartening, but until people and society in general takes a stand and changes, the situation and it's results aren't going to.

[screagle2]

I would say that simply bitching about "laws" has gone on for hundreds of posts, and to what end? The assertion of vehicle deaths is somewhat analogous, is simply not going to carry weight with the voting public, and those people who are unsure of their support, and are looking for an approach they can support, and we can live with, are the ones we need on our side. I see no way to do this, other than offer reasonable solutions.

I believe I was clear about ALL amendments! but the 1st and 4th, likewise, should not overshadow the 2nd.

No, there was not shootings on a daily or weekly or even monthly basis. I seriously challenge your assertion. Were there shootings, yes without doubt, and does the media coverage accentuate it, yes again. You missed my point. The media coverage is, I believe,mine the the things that needs to be addressed.

We can disagree with portions, but your last paragraph illustrates my points. I am saying that the chance of someone who simply makes feel good posts, has probably not sat and wondered if their (my) stance has added to the danger for their child..........I still feel as strongly now as before, but that kind of reflection forces one to soon discard all that is simply "noise."

It is not about how prestigious the school is. This is about all schools and students.

We can either choose to influence and try to direct the debate, or we can live with the outcome of simply complaining......

If we cannot offer well reasoned discussion to support our beliefs, then who?
FWIW, I read several forums, and 2 newspapers daily, with just as much disgust as I would guess you often feel, but I choose to only post when I cannot ignore what is being said.

[XC700116]

No, there was not shootings on a daily or weekly or even monthly basis. I seriously challenge your assertion. Were there shootings, yes without doubt, and does the media coverage accentuate it, yes again. You missed my point. The media coverage is, I believe,mine the the things that needs to be addressed.

.

I'll just put this here

Source http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/...ublic-unaware/

Looking back 50 years, the U.S. gun homicide rate began rising in the 1960s, surged in the 1970s, and hit peaks in 1980 and the early 1990s. (The number of homicides peaked in the early 1990s.) The plunge in homicides after that meant that firearm homicide rates in the late 2000s were equal to those not seen since the early 1960s.¹ The sharp decline in the U.S. gun homicide rate, combined with a slower decrease in the gun suicide rate, means that gun suicides now account for six-in-ten firearms deaths, the highest share since at least 1981

[crays]

Really???? Over 5000 posts, and you have nothing more constructive than that?????

Our son is a student in the Engineering school, and was in an adjacent building 4-500 yards away...
...
...
...I have waited until, today to, respond for several reasons...
...
... I wanted to make certain that my emotions are somewhat In check...

And, yet, I have to feel that you would still be waiting, past today, to respond, if this had occurred at any number of other Colleges/Universites around the nation.

I'm not trying to discredit your stance, but maybe you should take a look at that last bolded portion I stripped out of your quote. I am certain that you are emotionally, and intellectually, distraught right now, and understandably so. Any other forum member in the same circumstance would likely be, also. Perhaps "Preaching at the Choir" [at, not to] may apply a bit here.
Very sorry that your son was so closely tied to this instance, but very happy he was not immediately involved.
That said, I, and I am sure EVERY OTHER forum member, wish you, your son, and your family a healthy and speedy resolution in this matter, with no lasting detriment.

End of Response. Sorry for so many commas.

[KestrelBike]

Anyone else see about an hour ago on FoxNews their red banner "BREAKING NEWS: REPORTED SCHOOL SHOOTING IN FLORIDA" [I think, I can't remember where it was exactly] And an hour later, *poof* no story. I'll take Fox over the rest of the MSM any day of the week, but damn they need to stop being chicken little.

[Hound]

MntMan made a flippant response. After so many posts from many of us, it starts to be..... Redundant. We are all tired of these shootings but know there is little we can personally do. We fight where we can and support where we can't. What we do know is that taking away the guns is not the answer. Screagle2 is right in that there is a dirth of good ideas. Going after mental illness..... How can any of us prove we are sane from one minute to the next (why should We have to. Piss somebody off enough and bad things will happen regardless of a gun, knife or bat being near) and all of us on this forum refuse to put that power in the Gov hands (right or left) lightly. The all or nothing stance from the right has gotten us the BS laws of 2013 but giving even an inch makes the lefts idea of a mile seem like a lightyear. Answers.... are hard to come by when neither side has ANY trust of the other. Many of us have spent a lot of time last year trying to talk only to be railroaded into BS "public hearings". That being said the only reason some of the laws were shut down was that in quiet moments amongst the roar, that was last year, some people did talk .... just enough to hear the insanity in those dead laws. I might add it was Dems doing the listening, the right had no power. Both sides of this 'debate' are so dug in, those moments are more and more rare. Screagle2 once you have been on here more you will find all types of people but the vast majority, while I don't always agree with, are good people with differing points of view. That is one of the strengths here. I would be amazed if you were banned... Flaming... I will probably catch some myself. We are all big boys here.