Friendly reminder about the FFL requirement in the Trading Post

[theGinsue]

Don't forget "No Felons", and "Must have driver's license in order to operate a vehicle to drive to the FFL", and "Must not speed on the way to the FFL", and "must not plan bank robbery with me prior to purchase", and whatever other laws you might possibly break in the process of purchasing a firearm.

Point is, the law is the law. Why does only this law need to be spelled out? We live in a sick society that this website is forced to feel responsible, in any way, if two people decide to break the law. And if they decide to break this law: "The transaction needs to be completed through an FFL." why is that worse, or how is this website any more responsible for maintaining that law, than any of the others they could break?

I'm not saying this website is wrong for asking people to do this (and I will abide by it, and suggest you do the same), but if there is some legal responsibility, how can you stop there? There are a million laws they could break, and this website would theoretically be legally responsible for each and every one of them if they don't tell the members to add a disclaimer for each of them. Or you could just say "don't break any laws". Or you could say nothing, because not breaking laws should be assumed, as it is each and every second of my daily life, except when I'm on this website evidently.

Plain and and simple that's the site regs. Anyone who doesn't feel like we are doing enough or it's to much of an inconvenience can go to gun broker or any of the other sites that have private sales and conduct their business there.

Again this is my humble opinion.

Well said Dave. I second this opinion.

Simple fact is that the decision to REQUIRE this statement in firearm sales shows "due diligence on behalf of the staff to comply with this law. If someone fails to follow the law and we failed to demonstrate "due diligence", members of the staff could be subject to liability in the eyes of the law. Given that you're a member here and not part of the staff, you aren't subject to the same liabilities we are if a member chooses to do something stupid. Your staff here will continue to do what we feel is in the best interest of the site, our members, and ourselves. If this means a small inconvenience to you, so be it. Most folks would agree that it's a very small price to pay for the FREE benefit of using this site to facilitate your sales. Discounting the rest of the site, managing the Trading Post itself requires a fair amount of effort for the staff. If we can put the effort into managing it, members can put a little effort into using it with minor inconvenient requirements.

ETA:

Yes we can add a line to every post that has this disclaimer to it but then WE are adding this and not the members themselves when they are selling their item.

Right on. Point is, if WE add it automatically it can quickly be forgotten that this is a legal requirement. If YOU add it, you are reminded of what is needed to be legally compliant.

EETA: That post touched a cord with me too! I'm glad Dave & Leif addressed it first so my response was less abrupt.

[generalmeow]

If this means a small inconvenience to you, so be it.

It's no inconvenience at all. I'm just wondering why don't you just say "don't break any laws" instead of "don't break this one law". If you're liable for the one law, aren't you liable for all the laws?

Alas, I am not allowed to wonder about anything per the terms of service, so I will slink away. Thank you for the work you do on the website.

[theGinsue]

Again, it's a matter of "due diligence". Some things require we demonstrate that (which explains many of the rules here), while others do not.

[nynco]

Is there a way to systemically add the disclaimer to all ads posted in that section?

I think this is the best option. Make it stupid proof and it will cut down on the work of admins.

[theGinsue]

I think this is the best option. Make it stupid proof and it will cut down on the work of admins.

Oh, you were serious?!

So naive.

[Mazin]

Last time I checked this was a PSA thread not a "give us you advice" thread. This is not nor will be up for debate.

Fin

[jerrymrc]

It's no inconvenience at all. I'm just wondering why don't you just say "don't break any laws" instead of "don't break this one law". If you're liable for the one law, aren't you liable for all the laws?

Alas, I am not allowed to wonder about anything per the terms of service, so I will slink away. Thank you for the work you do on the website.

Because there is only one item that is for sale in the "firearms" section and those are firearms and/or the controlled part in the eyes of the powers that be. As strange as it may seem there are still many that did not get the message about private transfers of firearms.

There are other laws that we look for as well IE 922r but are looked at in a case by case basis. Of course wanting to debate the rules that we have for the section makes the boss want to toss the section since we have always looked at the trading post sections as an "extra" for our members and not a core or necessary section.

Just a thought.

[nynco]

Oh, you were serious?!

So naive.

The main point here is CYA. In reality, you can't control much more than that. I would think there would be something that could be added to the script that would post that on every post in that section as a rider. Perhaps I am wrong, I don't know what code you are using. Just trying to help.

[J]

Yes, it can be added, but it negates some of the effect. Having users add it adds another layer of 'Showing reasonable measures to ensure that transactions on the site are following the law'.

If it is added systematically, there is one less bit of proof that we are ensuring our users intend to follow the law with transactions originating on site servers.

There is another crucial reason for this:

To show people that we are a law abiding group, even with laws that we don't agree with. Maybe it helps win some public opinion for people on the fence with gun control. Maybe not. But I can tell you there is definitely a crowd that will assume we are skirting the law if we don't include it, and cry for more control and regulation of online sales, personal sales, etc, etc. They are looking for whatever little reason they can find to justify further restrictions after all.

[nynco]

OK I understand your point.