The Ant and the Grasshopper

[hollohas]

This was the idea behind Social Security and Medicare (we were suppsed to be creating our own mini pensions) but the Government is squandering these with guidance from the commercial world.

You lost me again with your dislike of the commercial world. You're right, we can't expect SS to payout for us. But that is because of the .gov mishandling it on their own accord, not at the guidance of the commercial world. Private retirement funds will still be paying out long after SS stops. And private commercial retirement funds have a much larger return on investment too. If the gov had actually taken some guidance from the commercial world, maybe SS would be a healthy program.

[Hound]

You lost me again with your dislike of the commercial world. You're right, we can't expect SS to payout for us. But that is because of the .gov mishandling it on their own accord, not at the guidance of the commercial world. Private retirement funds will still be paying out long after SS stops. And private commercial retirement funds have a much larger return on investment too. If the gov had actually taken some guidance from the commercial world, maybe SS would be a healthy program.

Social Security is having issues because of dipping into it during the Reagan years. I remember watching the debates. Those private commercial retirements won't survive another Great.... Whatever comes next. They have bounced back now but as an example my father got screwed because it hit at just the wrong time.

That was the point of SS. It was ALWAYs supposed to be there... Regardless and would have been if not raided. They did take commercial guidance..... And gave the money to fund the indutrial military complex of 400 ships and crap like StarWars.

BTW: I don't hate capitalism or the commercial world. They are good overall. What I do hate are monopoly's and not sharing in the prosperity. Lowballing the honest work of those where the rubber meets the road in a business. I find great fault with both Government and MegaCompanies. I support small companies and small business everytime I can. I have personally seen the Corporate, Union and Government shaft the middle class in my time. I didn't agree with any of them when it was happening. It usually happens when they are out of balance and the greed of a few feeds on the rest of us.

[crays]

Social Security is having issues because of dipping into it during the Reagan years.

Do your research before putting your foot in your mouth. It was not Reagan, but the Dems that have always mandated the raiding of SS. Every time. Look it up.

ETA: Reagan did sign into law taxes on SS earnings, but only above a certain income threshold...Something you should applaud, given your statements in this thread. (If you don't get that, it means that if you are making a certain amount of income, in addition to SS, a portion of your SS may be taxed as income.) BTW, from my personal perspective, getting a payout from SS (which I do not), which you, as an idividual have paid into (mandated by .gov, none the less), is not a .gov handout. The travesty lies in the fact that I will likely never see a cent of SS benefit myself, because I am a productive, competent contributor to society, and SS will have been long since sucked dry by so many, that somehow were paid benefits, yet never contributed to the fund.

Also interesting is that in your rebuttal to my reply, you are now referring to your printer repair friend in the past tense. And now your child has no chance to excel (your statement). What's up with that? Are you the repair guy. Is it your child you were referring to in your original reference to said repair guy? You need to start your own bitch thread to bitch about what you want to bitch about. This thread was started to comment on the current state of the rampant FSA element in society, and not the poor, down-trodden, defeated working class in our society that cannot get ahead, because they are being held back by the system. Better your lot in life, or accept it.

I am not inclined to respond further in this thread.


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[Hound]

Do your research before putting your foot in your mouth. It was not Reagan, but the Dems that have always mandated the raiding of SS. Every time. Look it up.


Sent via my Mobile Work Avoidance Device

My foot is fine. Lived it. Remember the debates. Don't need to look it up.

[Hound]

Do your research before putting your foot in your mouth. It was not Reagan, but the Dems that have always mandated the raiding of SS. Every time. Look it up.

ETA: Reagan did sign into law taxes on SS earnings, but only above a certain income threshold...Something you should applaud, given your statements in this thread. (If you don't get that, it means that if you are making a certain amount of income, in addition to SS, a portion of your SS may be taxed as income.)

Actually he put through MANY more laws than that on SS. Tip O'Niel once said of Reagan policies it was "one big Christmas party for the rich." Reagan ran up the bill with the treasury on defense spending that tapped into the surplus that SS was supposed to put away for future generations. These were the 'selling our kids future' debates of the time. Um.... For your next statement.... That was our future they were debating.

BTW, from my personal perspective, getting a payout from SS (which I do not), which you, as an idividual have paid into (mandated by .gov, none the less), is not a .gov handout. The travesty lies in the fact that I will likely never see a cent of SS benefit myself, because I am a productive, competent contributor to society, and SS will have been long since sucked dry by so many, that somehow were paid benefits, yet never contributed to the fund.

Actually we agree here for the most part. Read below for the exceptions, I am good with.

Also interesting is that in your rebuttal to my reply, you are now referring to your printer repair friend in the past tense.

He is quickly approaching retirement age and the fact is at his level of earning he has no chance of being able to retire. The past tense is appropriate because there is nothing he can really do at this point.

And now your child has no chance to excel (your statement). What's up with that? Are you the repair guy. Is it your child you were referring to in your original reference to said repair guy? You need to start your own bitch thread to bitch about what you want to bitch about. This thread was started to comment on the current state of the rampant FSA element in society, and not the poor, down-trodden, defeated working class in our society that cannot get ahead, because they are being held back by the system. Better your lot in life, or accept it.

My son is developmentally challenged as it seems so many are now days. I am not the guy on the press's and not 'just bitching'. It adds another level of difficulty to my own circumstances and was only brought up because many people (and their families) are in my son's shoes. You can't help how you are when you come out or what happens to you in life. Some are perfectly healthy and have every chance to excel but don't. Others come out with varying degrees of "challenges" because ... It happens. My son had over 37 operations before he was a year old. It is a miracle he is alive and my wife is an amazing mother. I am lucky to have both in so many ways. Still others have things happen to them completly out of their control like an IED blowing up or just the pressure of being shot at is too much. 2 out of 3 of these are not 'Grasshoppers' yet they would fit nicely into the first post of this thread since they may get assistance.

am not inclined to respond further in this thread.


Sent via my Mobile Work Avoidance Device

Reply or not is your own decision. I have simply tried to respond in kind to your and others responses as this is a good debate. Debate being a good exchange of point and counter point without emotion. Once emotion comes into it, its just an argument and nobody is really listening. Many on this forum claim to be open to opinions (and I have found that to be mostly true). I have shared mine. We differ, and that is healthy. It stops the echo chambers I started seeing.

[crays]

Actually he put through MANY more laws than that on SS. Tip O'Niel once said of Reagan policies it was "one big Christmas party for the rich." Reagan ran up the bill with the treasury on defense spending that tapped into the surplus that SS was supposed to put away for future generations. These were the 'selling our kids future' debates of the time. Um.... For your next statement.... That was our future they were debating.

I will concede, in a sense, on this point. We can both continue to dig up instances where BOTH sides have been effectively screwing us, and our future generations, over. (that could be a whole thread on its own)

He is quickly approaching retirement age and the fact is at his level of earning he has no chance of being able to retire. The past tense is appropriate because there is nothing he can really do at this point.

Point taken. But still, he sounds like a survivor to me, not a grasshopper. Sad that so many can no longer/will not be able to acheive the dream of a comfortable retirement.

My son is developmentally challenged as it seems so many are now days. I am not the guy on the press's and not 'just bitching'. It adds another level of difficulty to my own circumstances and was only brought up because many people (and their families) are in my son's shoes. You can't help how you are when you come out or what happens to you in life. Some are perfectly healthy and have every chance to excel but don't. Others come out with varying degrees of "challenges" because ... It happens. My son had over 37 operations before he was a year old. It is a miracle he is alive and my wife is an amazing mother. I am lucky to have both in so many ways.

My heart sincerely goes out to you, and all families who deal with this challenge on a daily basis. The weight of it is not lost on me. I am truly happy for you that he is still with you.

Still others have things happen to them completly out of their control like an IED blowing up or just the pressure of being shot at is too much. 2 out of 3 of these are not 'Grasshoppers' yet they would fit nicely into the first post of this thread since they may get assistance.

And that bolded last bit ^^^ is where I feel you are still missing the point of this thread. You were very quick to generalize that all people receiving assistance were being called out.
My understanding of this thread is that the "Grasshoppers" referred to in this thread, do not include people in the above snippet. The GH's being referenced are those that are capable, yet unwilling, to get off the dole. Those same GH's will be complaining the loudest, and likely causing the most disruption, when their free stuff stops flowing in. Those who are truly qualified, and deserving, of .gov assistance are typically not the issue.
There are many, many true GH's out there gaming the system. I do not begrudge anyone of deserved assistance, and do not simply count them as GH's merely for accepting assistance. That, in my opinion, is the disconnect that has spun this thread wild. The OP generalizes about the FSA types/societal sponges being the GH's, you expanded that generalization to include anyone who receives any form of assistance in that description. It is my opinion that many of the other members undertood it the same way.
And then the fun started. /sarcasm

.... Many on this forum claim to be open to opinions (and I have found that to be mostly true). I have shared mine. We differ, and that is healthy.

Agreed.