Legalize Concealed Carry for Soldiers on Military Installations

[Ronin13]

I run that exact scenario every class. Want to see the footage with students and Sim guns? More aggression & charging the attacker, armed or unarmed always equals less casualties. EVERY TIME. Its not like I teach this shit for a living...It's even in current DoD active shooter/insider threat POI. Cowering and hiding will never stop the threat. Only being aggressive in response will. And you want to be a cop??? Good luck with that mentality. However, thank you for exemplifying my point about the lack of proper mindset.

I don't mean it for myself- I mean it for the average person. Fight or flight. Not everyone is trained or mentally prepared to jump in, without equal armament, and attempt to stop an attacker. Even if I'm disarmed, unless a very good opportunity presents itself, I'm probably not going to intervene. Unless my options are dire, such as cower and die, or fight and possibly die, I'd prefer to get the hell out of there and live- if I'm unarmed, that is.

[275RLTW]

I don't mean it for myself- I mean it for the average person. Fight or flight. Not everyone is trained or mentally prepared to jump in, without equal armament, and attempt to stop an attacker. Even if I'm disarmed, unless a very good opportunity presents itself, I'm probably not going to intervene. Unless my options are dire, such as cower and die, or fight and possibly die, I'd prefer to get the hell out of there and live- if I'm unarmed, that is.

They were US Military!!! Not average people. It is their job to face the enemy, regardless of MOS. They failed to utilize their training to not freeze and hide in fear. The LT failed to act as an officer in the US Army and protect those under his command and do as he was trained to do. He was provided with active shooter training as well as combatives/H2H in basic training. He failed to do as he was paid to do because he "didn't have his firearm." A prime example of the weakening of our military...


ronin, if you will only act IF you have "equal armament" when innocent people are being slaughtered then you need to choose a new profession or rethink your training priorities and objectives (as well as your manhood).

[Ronin13]

They were US Military!!! Not average people. It is their job to face the enemy, regardless of MOS. They failed to utilize their training to not freeze and hide in fear. The LT failed to act as an officer in the US Army and protect those under his command and do as he was trained to do. He was provided with active shooter training as well as combatives/H2H in basic training. He failed to do as he was paid to do because he "didn't have his firearm." A prime example of the weakening of our military...


ronin, if you will only act IF you have "equal armament" when innocent people are being slaughtered then you need to choose a new profession or rethink your training priorities and objectives (as well as your manhood).

I'm just guessing here, but he never stated his MOS- so I can't speak to his training... the combatives training everyone gets in Basic (not sure about Infantry OSUT though) is a joke. I could do some basic moves right out of BCT, it wasn't until one of our NCOs went to Level 3 combatives training and took some outside the military training that we started doing weekly combatives/hand-to-hand training that I learned actual usable tactics. They Army doesn't see a huge need for all of it's troops- especially non-combat MOS soldiers- to know anything but a basic form of hand-to-hand, that IRL probably won't do you any favors. The Army is not trained to respond to a threat without the use of arms and force, unarmed against an active shooter and they might as well be average people with a little extra training in firearms, that's it. And I never said I'd only act if I had equal armament, I said unless an opportunity to act presented itself, I'm not going in gung ho and becoming another victim. That's why cops carry guns, otherwise what good are they if they become another victim? Questioning my manhood because I would be reluctant to commit suicide by gunman, okay, whatever. Now, if I was unarmed, encountered an active shooter, ideally I'd get to an advantageous position to utilize the hand-to-hand training I've received, but if that wasn't possible what good would I do in adding to the number of people the paramedics and/or coroner had to deal with?

[275RLTW]

Even if I'm disarmed, unless a very good opportunity presents itself, I'm probably not going to intervene.

The Army is not trained to respond to a threat without the use of arms and force, unarmed against an active shooter and they might as well be average people with a little extra training in firearms, that's it.
​​it's in current active shooter/insider threat POI as I mentioned before



And I never said I'd only act if I had equal armament, I said unless an opportunity to act presented itself, I'm not going in gung ho and becoming another victim.
​​see your quote above. You're trying to backpedal now.


That's why cops carry guns, otherwise what good are they if they become another victim? Questioning my manhood because I would be reluctant to commit suicide by gunman, okay, whatever. Now, if I was unarmed, encountered an active shooter, ideally I'd get to an advantageous position to utilize the hand-to-hand training I've received, but if that wasn't possible what good would I do in adding to the number of people the paramedics and/or coroner had to deal with?

​​based upon all the scenarios I've run over the last several years, you would most likely reduce the number of casualties and motivate others to join in stopping the threat by not being easy targets. Active shooters are cowards and are not looking for a fight. Every time the fight (armed or unarmed) has been brought to an AS/IT, they've stopped their actions and usually kill themselves.

[TheBelly]

I'm just guessing here, but he never stated his MOS- so I can't speak to his training... the combatives training everyone gets in Basic (not sure about Infantry OSUT though) is a joke. I could do some basic moves right out of BCT, it wasn't until one of our NCOs went to Level 3 combatives training and took some outside the military training that we started doing weekly combatives/hand-to-hand training that I learned actual usable tactics. They Army doesn't see a huge need for all of it's troops- especially non-combat MOS soldiers- to know anything but a basic form of hand-to-hand, that IRL probably won't do you any favors. The Army is not trained to respond to a threat without the use of arms and force, unarmed against an active shooter and they might as well be average people with a little extra training in firearms, that's it. And I never said I'd only act if I had equal armament, I said unless an opportunity to act presented itself, I'm not going in gung ho and becoming another victim. That's why cops carry guns, otherwise what good are they if they become another victim? Questioning my manhood because I would be reluctant to commit suicide by gunman, okay, whatever. Now, if I was unarmed, encountered an active shooter, ideally I'd get to an advantageous position to utilize the hand-to-hand training I've received, but if that wasn't possible what good would I do in adding to the number of people the paramedics and/or coroner had to deal with?

Haze Yourself.

By saying that you don't have the right level of combatives training, all you're saying is that you failed to understand the primary purpose of the Modern Army Combatives Program: to instill the will to close with and destroy the enemy and provide a basic toolset to do so.

I'm interpreting this as: 'my buddy's life is not as important as mine.'

Again, haze yourself.

[<MADDOG>]

Haze Yourself.

By saying that you don't have the right level of combatives training, all you're saying is that you failed to understand the primary purpose of the Modern Army Combatives Program: to instill the will to close with and destroy the enemy and provide a basic toolset to do so.

I'm interpreting this as: 'my buddy's life is not as important as mine.'

Again, haze yourself.

Belly, with all due respect; your comments are laughable...

The "will"? I can fucking guarantee none of the 3 killed or the 16 wounded had the "will" to get shot. I'm sure you would have been the hero of the day if you were present however...

And please continue interpreting bullshit from other people's statements; it makes for good popcorn-eating reading for the liberals who visit the site.