Caliber debates about pistols are worthless

[thvigil11]

Starting to look like it...

No kidding.

[HoneyBadger]

This thread needs some James Yeager.

This isn't ARFCOM.

Starting to look like it...

Sorry fellas.

[Auditech10]

[CapLock]

I'da put a first shot through the windshield ricochet off the ground and through the bad guys eye. Holstered the gun after the first shot cause I'm that confident. Oh yea....I took an advanced class. LOL

[TFOGGER]

Being a certified Monday morning Operator™, with thousands of hours of arguing useless points on the internet to my credit, I offer the following: Practice the failure drill. There was nothing wrong with the officer's response except for the fact that his adversary didn't cooperate by falling down dead when he was fatally wounded. So the officer recognized the fact, and changed tactics, as he was trained to do. He also changed his primary tactics to adapt to his experiences. Could he have made that tactical assessment earlier? Sure.

[TheWeeze]

He put something like 17 rounds into the guy in 56 seconds. I think he did a pretty good job the whole time.

[Great-Kazoo]

He put something like 17 rounds into the guy in 56 seconds. I think he did a pretty good job the whole time.

BUT he isn't a board member or USPSA shooter.

[68Charger]

Sgt. Gramin's experience reminded me of an old Alaskan bush pilot saying:

"Any landing you can walk away from is a good one"

armchair all you want- but in the end, he went home (but had to deal with ending a life) and the bad guy didn't. The BG won't be roaming the streets looking for less experienced officers to "bust a cap in" (or is that just a west coast saying?)

I thought it was a great read, and I would aspire to perform as well as Sgt. Gramin if the same thing happened to me.
Could he have done something different? Of course!
would it have had a different outcome? I'm sure some would have, but I don't think there's a better outcome than the actual ending.

I read this looking for something to take away as a learning experience- 'training, persistence, and carry lots of ammo!' is what I come up with. (nothing new, really)

In the end, I'm happy Sgt. Gramin survived, and I hope he has come to terms and forgiven the doctor for questioning his methods. (and even the BG, since he paid the ultimate price already)

BTW trot, loved your last post!

[hollohas]

There are very few shootouts I have read about that the officer had that high a percentage of accurate hits, especially during a prolonged fight. That guy did great and obviously took his training very seriously. His experience is more than most firearms instructors have. The advice from a man who has won a knockdown, drag-out fight is worth much more to me than one who hasn't.

And loosely addressing the theme of this thread without jumping on the pile, I say do both...train more AND carry more ammo. No reason not to do both. If training and shot placement were the only factors, highly trained/skilled officers would still be carrying revolvers. There's a reason even the best LE shooters chose a handgun with a higher capacity.

[lex137]

I just finished reading through the thread. Man I enjoyed it, thanks for the entertainment! I think you should train as much as you can and carry as much as you want. Never can have enough bullets or training!