Caliber debates about pistols are worthless

[WETWRKS]

This is why I chose the Fiveseven. Lots of ammo per mag. When I carry 1 round in the chamber, 1 mag in the gun, and 2 spare mags...I have 61 rounds at my disposal.

Then consider that 1 mag is Leo/Military ammo and 1 mag is high power aftermarket stuff...I have 40 rounds that should clear kevlar. If trends continue we will see more and more bad guys wearing kevlar making this more and more what you will need to stop them.

[Aloha_Shooter]

‘Hey, I need to slow down and aim better.’...............

If he did that at the start the fire fight would have been over a lot sooner.

At the core of his desperate firefight was a murderous attacker who simply would not go down, even though he was shot 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition — six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations.

That's out of 47 rounds to start the fight.

In this free-for-all, the assailant had, in fact, been struck 14 times. Any one of six of these wounds — in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney — could have produced fatal consequences…“in time,” Gramins emphasizes.

Anyone remember the old "Reading Is Fundamental" commercials? Reading comprehension FTW.

[DocMedic]

I can only speak from a military mindset of being shot at. But at least for me I can relate with what was said. It's not as simple as "slow down and aim better" Specially when on the other end is a guy who is doing everything in his power to kill you. Yes we can argue to the ground about training in proper fundamentals in all situation, but natural instinct will always take over first before cognitive thinking. Situation Awareness is the most important in my opinion. Your not going to be able to do much if your hit, and sometimes (from a military standpoint) supressive fire and getting into controlling position is the better option, this will help change the variables into your favor were training / cognitive thinking can take over. From my experience I've seen more soldiers get hit from random acts of fire when there trying to place well aim shots, and I believe this happens for two reason, one they tunnel vision and lose situation awareness. Basically they got rounds skipping inches from their head and they rather take the time to aim rather then take cover. and Two they lost their grasp of their position. Using a wall is great for cover but is it always? when its only a few inches thick and is made of mud?

Basically what he did was just tha,t try to change the variable of the gun fight by making the perp come to him IE look under the vehicle and this was the opportunity he needed to recollect himself to be able to do what he trained for.

[CHA-LEE]

I was trying to say that if he shot him in the head to start off with, it would have been over a lot sooner. I also want to point out that you can shoot a head size target effectively and quickly with the proper training and practice. But most people CHOOSE to settle for "center of mass" quality of hits in their training and practice. Shooters with that poor of a pistol shooting skill level probably do need a hail of bullets sent down range to luck into a head shot hit. I also want to point out the fact that for the average shooter it would take them WAY longer to perform a magazine change than it would for them to simply aim and press off a single head shot.

The way I see it you can Aim and make a quality hit or sling lead in the general direction of your target and hope to get a hit. One method is going to produce more consistent results than the other so choose wisely.

[Ronin13]

I was trying to say that if he shot him in the head to start off with, it would have been over a lot sooner. I also want to point out that you can shoot a head size target effectively and quickly with the proper training and practice. But most people CHOOSE to settle for "center of mass" quality of hits in their training and practice. Shooters with that poor of a pistol shooting skill level probably do need a hail of bullets sent down range to luck into a head shot hit. I also want to point out the fact that for the average shooter it would take them WAY longer to perform a magazine change than it would for them to simply aim and press off a single head shot.

The way I see it you can Aim and make a quality hit or sling lead in the general direction of your target and hope to get a hit. One method is going to produce more consistent results than the other so choose wisely.

My guess: you've never tried to fire a gun, accurately, in a high stress, adrenaline filled situation. I challenge you to attempt to recreate a scenario like that- go to the range, do 20 pushups, sprint 20M, draw and fire at a silhouette's head within 10 seconds (a damn eternity) from 5-7M all while someone is screaming at you. Good luck... And I've had both .mil and LEO training.

[ray1970]

My daily load out consists of exactly zero rounds. Has for the past forty-three years.

Making smart decisions and having a bit of good luck goes a long way.

Your mileage may vary.

[DocMedic]

Cha-lee Stop Trolling lol. Next thing you know your gonna tell us to go practice IDPA

[jhood001]

He lived. Bad guy died. He now say's more ammo is better?

I think I'll take his words into great consideration and not do any speculating of my own. I've never had to shoot at something shooting back at me.

[Jim B]

I was trying to say that if he shot him in the head to start off with, it would have been over a lot sooner. I also want to point out that you can shoot a head size target effectively and quickly with the proper training and practice.

You must have missed this part: "Gramins fired back through his windshield". He also had this to take into account: "Then a few yards from where a 10-year-old boy was skateboarding on a driveway, the suspect abruptly squealed to a stop."

[<MADDOG>]

Thanks for the post OP. Interesting reading.