Caliber debates about pistols are worthless

[Great-Kazoo]

Sign me up. 6x6 at 20 yards is no joke, for me at least.

Everyone says that, till the flag drops.

[TheGrey]

On his first day back from vacation, Sgt. Gramin did all of that?

Major respect! I can't imagine what he was going through- especially moments after he was going to purchase his eight-year-old's birthday gift, he's in the firefight of his life.
Some points that stood out from the article:

"Gramins fired back through his windshield, sending a total of 13 rounds tearing through just three holes."

13 shots through 3 holes, at a moving target, all while trying to maintain cover and make sure no passers-by were struck by errant bullets.

"A master firearms instructor and a sniper on his department’s Tactical Intervention Unit, “I was confident at least some of them were hitting him, but he wasn’t even close to slowing down,” Gramins said."

That would be terrifying.

[KestrelBike]

Here's a better idea for the challenge: Standard size target in full clothes at 25 yards. (true, can't see hits). Up close, a popper that activates a rigged paintball gun (automatic) targeting the competitor. So, you shoot the close popper, and paintballs start flying at you. A small popper in the vital area behind the clothed target disables the paintball gun. Of course, the risk that someone is going to blast their own foot off is probably moderate, so not exactly practical on an "open to the public" type of thing.

Genius! But like you said, Bring your waivers lol.

[SuperiorDG]

For clarification:

On his first day back from vacation, Sgt. Gramin did all of that?

Major respect! I can't imagine what he was going through- especially moments after he was going to purchase his eight-year-old's birthday gift, he's in the firefight of his life.
Some points that stood out from the article:

"Gramins fired back through his windshield, sending a total of 13 rounds tearing through just three holes."

13 shots through 3 holes, at a moving target, all while trying to maintain cover and make sure no passers-by were struck by errant bullets.

"A master firearms instructor and a sniper on his department’s Tactical Intervention Unit, “I was confident at least some of them were hitting him, but he wasn’t even close to slowing down,” Gramins said."

That would be terrifying.

The three hole were in the windshield and it was not moving.

[osok-308]

There's been a lot of monday morning quarterbacking done on this thread. Sure, it's easy to say "just shoot him in the head it's not that hard". I seem to remember during the Super Bowl "Just throw touchdowns, it isn't that hard". but in a high stress situation, everything is hard. There are no guarantees in life, in fact, the bad guy was still living after three head shots and 14 to the body. In most cases hits to the body WILL work, and in the rare occurrence that they don't, this officer did the right thing. 17 hits in the 56 minutes mentioned, that's 1 hit every 3 seconds! I don't care if you can hit a "head size target from fifty yards while you rub one out" when adrenaline courses through you, all bets are off. It is true that by training constantly you can increase your skill and overcome some of this, but biology will still win out and adrenaline will be coursing through your body as you try to hold steady, your hands will still shake, it's science. But hey, I'm not an officer, soldier, or SWAT operator. But I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

[Irving]

I have no experience with ending someone's life, but there is something that strikes me about this scenario. It's not like this officer was surprised, reacted, the guy died at the end, and everything was over before he knew it had started. Like running over a pedestrian for example.

After getting hits through the windshield and the guy not going down, this officer had to completely change his mindset. He was no longer just reacting to a situation. He had to make choices and actively pursue putting this guy down. I imagine that it really has to have a different effect on him emotionally, to have been put into a position where he is actively trying to put someone down with everything he has; as opposed to just reacting with a favorable outcome.

[Auditech10]

I have no experience with ending someone's life, but there is something that strikes me about this scenario. It's not like this officer was surprised, reacted, the guy died at the end, and everything was over before he knew it had started. Like running over a pedestrian for example.

After getting hits through the windshield and the guy not going down, this officer had to completely change his mindset. He was no longer just reacting to a situation. He had to make choices and actively pursue putting this guy down. I imagine that it really has to have a different effect on him emotionally, to have been put into a position where he is actively trying to put someone down with everything he has; as opposed to just reacting with a favorable outcome.

He did what he was trained to do. He did what he had practiced countless times before. He did what he had to do. And he walked away from it. And I gaurantee he will never forget this day. Ever.
Cheers

[TheGrey]

For clarification:



The three hole were in the windshield and it was not moving.

Yes, thirteen shots through three holes in the windshield.

I'm impressed with that- I'm still new enough to shooting that I'm absurdly pleased with myself when I can keep my grouping to one quadrant on my target.

I take it by your response that putting 3 shots through 3 holes in a windshield is no big thing? That everyone can do it?

[SuperiorDG]

Yes, thirteen shots through three holes in the windshield.

I'm impressed with that- I'm still new enough to shooting that I'm absurdly pleased with myself when I can keep my grouping to one quadrant on my target.

I take it by your response that putting 3 shots through 3 holes in a windshield is no big thing? That everyone can do it?

I think the story is kind of sensationalizing this fact. It's really no big deal if you have ever tried it. The reason there were three holes is probably because the target was moving. If it was stationary there would have probably only been one hole. When shooting from inside a car the muzzle is right up against the windshield and usually after the first shot the muzzle it poking through the windshield. Just try sitting in your car and fully extend the gun as you normally would and you will see what I mean. FYI: if you have a Glock with stock sights you may end up without a front sight, thus screwing you for the rest of the gunfight.

[lex137]

Good thing I switched my glock front sights to steel!