9/12ers

[ChunkyMonkey]

We are beyond Socialism, the boat sailed years ago, we have Fascism now.

????????????? We are moving toward socialism.. but we are far from fascism! You would not have the right to be bitching online if we were in one -- Nevertheless, God forbid we become a socialist country -- Hence the reason why we must stand strong on our ground. This kind of exaggerated/doom day talk is what turning off the mainstream crowd.

No offense man, I was born in a 'socialist authoritarian' country which was short of fascism -- To say that US is a fascist country made you look like a defeatist.

Chill out

[DOC]

General FYI, the people behind getting that passed (individuals, not NRA etc.) are talking about getting a squeaky clean Montanan to threaten the ATF (I'd imagine a letter?) to mfg Montana only rifles without a license (22 youth rifles) for the purpose of getting told "no" so they can take it up through the court system. Didn't watch the news story, don't take time to watch news networks. This is the same way that D.C. vs Heller got started. That was a libertarian attorney, who didn't even own a firearm that wanted to do it for the sake of hopefully helping regain freedom. It started with 6 original plaintiffs, carefully selected, the only one that had a case was Heller, a security guard, because he was the only one that had a (out of state) Handgun to try to register and get denied. The one with the least infringement is the only one that can sue, Ironic isn't it? I guess that means if DC banned all firearms across the board nobody could make a case out of it lol. (they wish anyway).

And after the SCOTUS ruled that heller and others could have a gun in DC. DC found a way to deny the right and refuse of all people Heller again. I haven't heard if the Supreme Court issued bench warrants or contempt of court charges yet to force the DC assholes to approve Heller. But they should. That is what they would do with anyone else who doesn't comply with the courts.

[theGinsue]

This may be true, but the SCOTUS Heller vs D.C. decision wa so watered down and in many ways, vague, that it left a great deal to interpretation.

[SA Friday]

This may be true, but the SCOTUS Heller vs D.C. decision wa so watered down and in many ways, vague, that it left a great deal to interpretation.

The Heller decision was INTENTIONALLY vague. Essentially, the majority decision ruled the DC ban was unconstitutional because the 2nd Ammendment was an individual right. Case closed. The ruling did not address any of the other laws affecting individual gun ownership.

It couldn't. Regardless of the court, or their perceived power, they cannot rule on laws that are not in question of the case filed for ruling. What the CAN do is set case presidence that can be used in future cases against previous and future laws.

Kennedy completely gave away what the majority decision was going to look like when he questioned attorneys about the 1st ammendment and how it had collected "baggage along the way" to determine where the individual right applied and where it was acceptable to control through laws for the betterment of society.

We are currently testing where that line is with the individual right of 2A, and case ruling after case ruling is the baggage along the way.

Watered down? I don't think so. It was the strongest re-enforcement of individual rights in this country since US v Miranda (which was later encompassed into 5A after the US v Dickerson ruling).

Socialism? I've lived in socialist countries. I've been to 21 countries and lived in many of them in the last 21 years, the last 10 serving as a Fed Agent for the US Military dealing with their laws and working with the foreign countries police regularly. You obviously have NO idea what you are talking about and are simply spewing crap if you believe we live in a socialist country. If you think there's something better out there, pack your crap and move. Good luck with that...

[GunTroll]

The Heller decision was INTENTIONALLY vague. Essentially, the majority decision ruled the DC ban was unconstitutional because the 2nd Ammendment was an individual right. Case closed. The ruling did not address any of the other laws affecting individual gun ownership.

It couldn't. Regardless of the court, or their perceived power, they cannot rule on laws that are not in question of the case filed for ruling. What the CAN do is set case presidence that can be used in future cases against previous and future laws.

Kennedy completely gave away what the majority decision was going to look like when he questioned attorneys about the 1st ammendment and how it had collected "baggage along the way" to determine where the individual right applied and where it was acceptable to control through laws for the betterment of society.

We are currently testing where that line is with the individual right of 2A, and case ruling after case ruling is the baggage along the way.

Watered down? I don't think so. It was the strongest re-enforcement of individual rights in this country since US v Miranda (which was later encompassed into 5A after the US v Dickerson ruling).

Socialism? I've lived in socialist countries. I've been to 21 countries and lived in many of them in the last 21 years, the last 10 serving as a Fed Agent for the US Military dealing with their laws and working with the foreign countries police regularly. You obviously have NO idea what you are talking about and are simply spewing crap if you believe we live in a socialist country. If you think there's something better out there, pack your crap and move. Good luck with that...

Good call on your facts and opinions. But on the note of socialism do you not believe we are headed in that direction? And I mean even before Obama. Bush was a tool for some other means as well ,and the one before him, and before him ,even if they didn't intend for it to go this direction intentionally or purposely. You can't have your blinders on that tight with your background?? Do we call it Socialism now or tomorrow? Either way I and others (even on here) agree something is up and course has been set in motion toward somewhere far from our founding principles. Hell, no one even knows that we are a Republic anymore. Democracy! I hate this word.

[SA Friday]

We have never had nor have been a democracy. We have always had a Federalist government. Subtile difference, but it's there.

I do believe we are moving from our founding principals. I don't believe we have strayed as far as many try to make it out to be, and in many ways we have acutally strayed closer. Hell, in the late 1800's one could be found guilty of something as petty as stealing a horse on the testimony of one person and summarily hung. No appeals. No designated advocate for the accused, definately no protection for the suspect during an interrogation. Great results if you didn't like the guy, but pretty crappy if you are the accused. Now a days the chances of this happening are virtually nil. ya, sh!t happens now and then with Law Enforcement using excessive force. Ha ha, 100 years ago, they would have just fricken shot Rodney King and called it a day.

Too much Fed Govt dictation into what should be state legislation? Hell yes. For example, in 1986 or 87 the Fed Govt essentially blackmailed every state in passing a mandatory helmet law for motorcycle riders. They did this by essentially saying do it or we take away Fed subsidation for your roads and highways. 5 states told them to F off. Blackmail, no matter what the issue, never sets well with me.

Societies and Govt's change over time. This happens based on too many factors to discuss, but not all of them are bad. ANY Govt that can't survive two terms of a crappy leadership would have crumbled down to anarchy anyway. Somolia is a good example of this.

You want to start the pendilium swing back to our founding principals, stop trying to convince adults of 'the way it should be' and start teaching the kids in this country the information they need to change it in the next two generations. That's what it will take. A huge step would be mandating philosophy as a required course of study in every high school in this country. THAT knowledge is how our founding principals came into being. That understanding also gives them the ability to think critically about the information being thrown at them.

Then it will change without losing what we have gained. Rants and outlandish statements just make people look at you like you're crazy.

[GunTroll]

On the Democracy note. I know what we are suppose to be... Not what we are today. Good luck educating the youth quicker and more efficiently than our liberal agenda run school system.