Powerful message from the folks at VW...

[Dave_L]

I leave my phone on silent 99% of the time. It stays in my pocket until I need it. People get mad at me but people forget that owning a cell phone does not obligate me to be at your beck and call. It's a tool for me to use, at my convenience/necessity. Friends have learned to call my wife and ask for me if they need something ASAP

[Jer]

I leave my phone on silent 99% of the time. It stays in my pocket until I need it. People get mad at me but people forget that owning a cell phone does not obligate me to be at your beck and call. It's a tool for me to use, at my convenience/necessity. Friends have learned to call my wife and ask for me if they need something ASAP

Okay now that's just weird. lol

[Dave_L]

Okay now that's just weird. lol

Haha, yeah. I'm just tied to my office phone ALL day so a ringing phone is the last thing I want to deal with when I leave.

[MarkCO]

Problem is, like drunks, these idiots often kill innocents as well. They don't think, don't care, or don't realize the consequences of their actions.

If your spouse/child, was killed by a drunk, would you be pissed? What if your spouse/child was killed by a driver not paying attention because they were texting, eating a burrito, changing stations on the radio, doing their make-up? How are any of these deliberate actions that remove their attention from the operation of a MV any different? If I could be sure that the idiot would maim/kill him/herself, then sure, I have little issue with it.

Having seen firsthand the pain of a family where a parent was killed because a 54 year old truck driver could not resist watching porn while driving, or the 8 year old ground to hamburger by a 17 year old girl who could not resist the text from her boyfriend...Both are still living with their families, their victims are not.

MV deaths due to drugs and alcohol has been on a decline the last several years, but it is being outpaced by driver inattention due to media.

Pure selfishness to not pay attention while driving...the willingness to take someone else's life so you can play with your phone while driving, or drive drunk...all the same, and all pathetic.

[Jer]

Problem is, like drunks, these idiots often kill innocents as well. They don't think, don't care, or don't realize the consequences of their actions.

If your spouse/child, was killed by a drunk, would you be pissed? What if your spouse/child was killed by a driver not paying attention because they were texting, eating a burrito, changing stations on the radio, doing their make-up? How are any of these deliberate actions that remove their attention from the operation of a MV any different? If I could be sure that the idiot would maim/kill him/herself, then sure, I have little issue with it.

Having seen firsthand the pain of a family where a parent was killed because a 54 year old truck driver could not resist watching porn while driving, or the 8 year old ground to hamburger by a 17 year old girl who could not resist the text from her boyfriend...Both are still living with their families, their victims are not.

MV deaths due to drugs and alcohol has been on a decline the last several years, but it is being outpaced by driver inattention due to media.

Pure selfishness to not pay attention while driving...the willingness to take someone else's life so you can play with your phone while driving, or drive drunk...all the same, and all pathetic.

Would I be upset? Of course. I'd be crushed. Just because I'm crushed it doesn't give me the duty to take liberties from others as if it would have saved them. Chances are it wouldn't have. That's life. As long as you're alive there's only one other option and there's a million ways for it to happen so living is inherently dangerous. Not every death needs to be followed by sweeping laws to make something common illegal. Using your examples are we going to make burritos, listening to the radio and make-up illegal? After all, if it saves just one child's life.. it's worth it, right? Man... this is sure sounding ironically familiar to something we generally despise on our gun forum.

I'm glad you brought up DUI... have we REALLY made a dent in alcohol related injury accidents as a result of more strict DUI laws?

The bottom line is that driving is dangerous business and the focus should be on the action... not the tool. Once again, sounds awfully familiar... right?

[MarkCO]

Jer, actually, painful as it might be, I agree with you. Our government has tried way to hard to protect the stupid and the innocent from the stupid. There are things you can do to mitigate your exposure to idiots, but nothing is foolproof. Yes, the focus SHOULD be on the action, not the tool.

So, how do we go back to making people pay for their stupidity instead of walking out on it? Text/drive drunk/ eat a burrito and kill someone...do we, as a society strap you in a chair and flip the switch? Our society has lost its will to punish stupidity due to apathy, sympathy, etc, so how does the impasse get resolved?

But, yes stricter DUI enforcement and penalties, along with educational campaigns by the alcohol producers, have made a sizable dent in alcohol related accidents and deaths.

Just FTR, I did not, in this thread advocate making texting illegal. Philosophically, I am against it. Now if an automaker wanted to create a system where handset use was not possible while the ignition was on, free market would decide if it was good or bad. I have my cell set to decide if I am driving to go to auto-speak and not let me text. BUT, I controlled myself, I don't want the government to do it.

[Jer]

Jer, actually, painful as it might be, I agree with you. Our government has tried way to hard to protect the stupid and the innocent from the stupid. There are things you can do to mitigate your exposure to idiots, but nothing is foolproof. Yes, the focus SHOULD be on the action, not the tool.

So, how do we go back to making people pay for their stupidity instead of walking out on it? Text/drive drunk/ eat a burrito and kill someone...do we, as a society strap you in a chair and flip the switch? Our society has lost its will to punish stupidity due to apathy, sympathy, etc, so how does the impasse get resolved?

But, yes stricter DUI enforcement and penalties, along with educational campaigns by the alcohol producers, have made a sizable dent in alcohol related accidents and deaths.

Just FTR, I did not, in this thread advocate making texting illegal. Philosophically, I am against it. Now if an automaker wanted to create a system where handset use was not possible while the ignition was on, free market would decide if it was good or bad. I have my cell set to decide if I am driving to go to auto-speak and not let me text. BUT, I controlled myself, I don't want the government to do it.

It's difficult to extrapolate that more strict DUI laws (lowering the BAC, etc.) is solely responsible for a decrease in motor vehicle injury accidents and fatalities. It's arguable that the emphasis & advancement in vehicle safety my manufacturers plays a large role in this as well. The point is that it's way too complex to say that we have laws to thank.

How do we fix it? Well, that's a complex question and the solutions are numerous & complicated but suffice it to say that f we stop protecting the stupid from themselves via nit picky laws the dumb will weed themselves out at a more rapid rate and we'll be back to an increased average intelligence. This is a rather deep subject that would require it's own thread but it should be pretty obvious that my stance is that petty laws isn't the solution. It's not even a band-aid fix IMO. If we can't be trusted to know when a situation is too dangerous to text (or change the radio station, enter an address in the nav, active the windshield wipers, etc.) while driving then what can be we trusted with? I don't need the government to tell me any of these things and if this means the perception by some is that I'm slightly less safe then so be it. I've logged hundreds of thousands of accident-free miles (other than a deer and an unavoidable truck pulling out in front of me.. both on a motorcycle) in a vehicle and am a firm believer that this isn't due to luck. Much like real life, you need to be on your A game when it comes to situational awareness and this is directly proportional to the speeds at which you're operating.

Summary: Liberty is dangerous and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Irving]

Now we're getting into my real pet peeve of people who don't answer the phone.

[Dave_L]

Now we're getting into my real pet peeve of people who don't answer the phone.

Leave me a voicemail and I'll gladly call you back at my convenience. Don't worry, I won't get mad at you when things aren't done on the regular time table as I realize my inability to answer results in longer wait times.

[Ronin13]

Now we're getting into my real pet peeve of people who don't answer the phone.

I can deal with that... I understand sometimes people are either A) too busy to answer, or B) answering would be imprudent (like if they're driving). Now, not calling you back when it's convenient, that's what really grinds my gears.