Eow feedback discussion

[RRD3]

ANd for the last god damn time, I know it's not required by law.

Hey Ryan.... Does the law require a DL or copy of said DL?

J/K

[theGinsue]

Well this topic is the proverbial "beating a dead horse with a stick". We've discussed this same topic on this site many times and in the end fellings are hurt because of someones comments but no one has changed their position.

As I see it there are essentially 3 schools of thought on the issue:

School 1. Those who want some form of documentation (Bill of Sale, copy of purchasers DL, etc.).
These folks want this because they feel it offers them some form of protection should the firearm get traced back to them by LEO (In this reference I use this as an encompassing term for local LE, County, State, and Feds).

School 2. Those who do not want any form of documentation of the transaction. These folks don't have any intention of using the firearm for illegal activity, but don't want a paper trail for Big Brother to follow. These folks also say that since it isnt required by law it isn't needed and that it carries no legal weight. There are also those in this group who feel it is an imposition against the 2nd Amendment and prefer FTF sales BECAUSE paperwork isn't required. Then there are those in this group who feel that any form of documentation can be used against, not for, you later.

School 3. These folks don't care either way. You typically do not hear from anyone in these discussions who belong to this school as the conversations get very polarized and the "don't cares" want to stay out of the middle of it.

Again, I have never seen any of these discussions move someone from one school of thought to the other. As you can imagine, I belong to one of these schools. I'll let you determine which one by the way I post a firearm for sale/trade on this site (yeah, like I'd have ever sold one of my guns if I hadn't lost them in that tragic boating accident) and from the items I express an interest in that someone else is selling/trading.

This post was sort of a "green tea moment" to relax this thread a bit. I just hope that, when the dust settles, everyone still gets along and we can sing Kumbaya whilst holding hands around the campfire. (HOLY CRAP that sounds like something a liberal would say...I'll consider editing it later.)

It's good to understand folks reasoning for their positions, whether we agree with them or not. As long as everyone, seller and buyer alike, make their intentions known up front then no one should have an issue with the other persons position - it's just how they feel and they won't change.

In the end, the seller is not compelled to sell their wares to anyone and can cancel a pending sale at any time until they receive money for the item(s).... and a potential buyer is not compelled to go through with a purchase until the point that they take possession of an item, or it is shipped out to them. With that said, if either the buyer or seller went out of their way to make the transaction then you'd be wise to compensate them for their time, gas, and any other expenses.

Now, where the heck has EOW been through this entire thread? Perhaps he's playing it smart and just staying out of this conversation as I probably should have done. Then again, it's been a long time since anyone ever accused me of being smart! I'm hungry. I think I'll go make myself a sam-ich.

[sniper7]

will you hold my left hand Ginsue? Kumbaya!!!!

[theGinsue]

Aw, shucks sniper... I thought you'd never ask <big wink>

[Dr_Fwd]

oh, I'm sorry, did I interrupt something here?

[ChunkyMonkey]

I am just sorry. eew!!! as in yucky that is.. not as in mispelled eow. Wait what was the topic of the thread again?

[AK545Man]

I know I distrust law enforcement. I worked for DHS for two years. Anyone who thinks I'm crazy or unpatriotic can die for all I care. Not fuck off, but seriously die. I know what I know and I've seen what I've seen while working for Uncle Scam. They can put what they want on you. The whole purpose of reporting shit on my family earlier was to see where peoples' minds were at.

It's not to say I don't know any good law enforcement officers. There's plenty. But you would be surprised what can save your ass in a (maritime) court.

And yes if you ask me to I will give you instances. Not officially cited of course. That would be anti-oath.

[ryanek9freak]

and you said you don't want your ass on the line when the cops show up. it already is on the line by you selling the gun to the guy. bill of sale or not. it may prove you didn't do that particular crime, but they might get you for selling to someone who wasn't legally allowed to own a gun. then they will really dig into your personal life.

bill of sale is worthless. go to an FFL if you want paperwork.

I agree with you Sniper 100%. Even if I could show the cops who bought it from me, there's no guarantee that that person was the one who committed said crime. I mean shit, the gun could have exchanged hands 50 more times. I just want to get the cops out of my house as fast as possible, that's all.

I'm currently in the process of obtaining my FFL, a i've just finished gunsmithing school, and plan to build custom weapons.

Maybe I'm just practicing. lol.

[Irving]

Let's change this up a little bit. What if you are selling a gun that you bought face to face with no paper work? How likely is it that the gun will be traced to you in the first place?


Also, I'm curious about this whole "find my old gun at a crime scene" thought process. I haven't registered any of my guns. If I leave one of my guns on a park bench, how easy is it for them to track me down as the owner? I assume they pull the numbers and see where the manufacturer sent it, then go there and see who the dealer sold the gun to? Is that about how it works?

Also, they can find 10 of my guns at a crime scene, but that doesn't mean they'll have a shred of evidence that I did anything.


Oh yes, since someone brought up looking like an FFL, the whole entire Feedback forum lends itself to making everyone mentioned in it look like a dealer. Why do you care about your reputation for selling guns if you aren't doing it to make money? If you sell a car once every ten years and a deal goes south, it's no skin off your back, because you aren't selling cars every other week. Just something to think about.

[MrPrena]

Seller has a rights to ask to see or sign stuff. There are nothing wrong with it.
You can ask me to provide strain of DNA sample, drug test, proof of citizenship/birth certificate, Green Card, CO ID, CCW ID, business card, resume, school transcript incl GPA, etc. "If" someone is selling an NIB $10,000 firearm for $100, fine.. I "might" do all that.
If someone is selling $600 firearm for $550, probably would not jump all the hoops that seller requires.

Just that it wont really protect you from anything. I really don't care about doing/not doing the bill of sale.
Worst case, if i do need their info, I already have tons of PM/email showing that I Bought/Sold the firearm. It is my/their firearm now.