Meanwhile in Russia...

[BushMasterBoy]

The X-37 can be used to haul a large variety of payloads. It can have a remote manipulator grab a satellite in orbit. It is really just an unmanned mini shuttle.
Did you read the wiki report? Yeah it is classified, but it can do a lot more than the wiki report. Of course you guys know everything...just like the guys on arfcom!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_mechanics

[Aloha_Shooter]

I suggest you read the link you posted yourself. Big difference between being at LEO, somewhere between 300 and 1000 km altitude, and being at GEO (~35,786 km altitude). Including an inclination change of 30 degrees, you're looking at 4.7 km/s delta-v to go from a 300 km circular orbit to equatorial geostationary.

Like HoneyBadger, I don't understand what you're trying to say by linking to speculation about the X-37 but hell, it's just my profession so what would I know?

[HoneyBadger]

I don't understand what you're trying to say by linking to speculation about the X-37 but hell, it's just my profession so what would I know?

Ditto.

...and since you seem to know all about rendezvous and prox ops, why don't you tell us how those orbital mechanics work between LEO and GEO??

[sniper7]

Sensors change but optics doesn't. There's a limit to what kind of resolvable image you can get based on the primary aperture of the telescope. Yes, you can compensate for atmospheric distortion using deformable mirrors but that usually requires something like a laser guidestar. You can do subpixel processing but that usually requires extended image integration which is pretty tricky given the satellite motion. Bottom line, I might buy the satellite could see the expiration sticker on your plate but I don't buy it can produce a resolvable image allowing you to read the sticker.

So why can you believe it can see the sticker but not be able to produce an image of the sticker with clarity. And what's to stop optics from improving...are we at the ultimate limit? I honestly don't know a lot of details or facts/figures of satellites or optics/imagery, but I don't doubt we have the technology to see clear images of small objects from space. It's not like it's really that inconceivable of a notion.

[HoneyBadger]

So why can you believe it can see the sticker but not be able to produce an image of the sticker with clarity. And what's to stop optics from improving...are we at the ultimate limit? I honestly don't know a lot of details or facts/figures of satellites or optics/imagery, but I don't doubt we have the technology to see clear images of small objects from space. It's not like it's really that inconceivable of a notion.

As I said previously, the optical physics, combined with building and launch constraints are what limit us. It is absolutely possible, but it would require an absolutely huge focal length, which means a huge and extremely heavy satellite, which means an extremely costly to build and costlier to launch satellite (I don't even know if anyone in the world has a launch capability to launch a satellite of the size and weight we are talking about). Assuming it is technically feasible to get that kind of resolution from LEO, it's really not a good cost/benefit analysis either when you can put up 1 $20M drone which can give us great resolution and is easy to reprogram, repair, update, etc, vs a $10B satellite that is impractical to repair, operates in much harsher conditions, and offers very little tactical, operational, or strategic advantage over a drone.

[Bailey Guns]

Badger and Aloha...better watch out. A lot of experts out there gonna have your jobs if you're not careful.

[Aloha_Shooter]

HoneyBadger, just to clarify, if I can get one of those huge comm sats up to GEO, I can put a metric shit ton of payload in LEO orbit. The question is what all do you build with that mass and how do you keep it together with all the stresses of a launch.

For those of you that still think you can do it, let's look at the problem in reverse. The Air Force Research Lab has released a lot of their imagery using some of the most advanced optics in the world. Stuff you can't possibly fit on a current rocket and that wouldn't survive the stresses of a launch -- but never mind physics or engineering.




From http://www.kirtland.af.mil/shared/me...0Processed.jpg:


sniper7 -- big difference between seeing the blob of a colored sticker and having enough resolution to read what's on it. You can see that yourself by taking shots at different ranges using any digital camera. Yes, the satellites are much bigger than the lens on your camera but so is the range and the problem only gets more difficult with range.

[Erni]

On a side note, I am glad I am not the only "gun guy" in aerospace. Numer of gun guys in engineering is too small.

[HoneyBadger]

On a side note, I am glad I am not the only "gun guy" in aerospace. Numer of gun guys in engineering is too small.

Agreed. Sometimes it freaks me out.

[Aloha_Shooter]

You would be surprised at the number of gun guys in aerospace.