What if all the illegals left?

[MED]

For those that think illegal immigrants are a low cost workforce, that is incorrect. They are a heavily subsidized workforce. Sadly, the money that pours into budgets to support these families, is not necessarily funded. Many of the programs that support illegal immigrants are unfunded liabilities, which is one of the forces driving up our national debt. The dollar is so diluted at this point, I doubt there is any recovery before it collapses. The truly unfortunate circumstance of illegal immigration is the use of it to change demographics for political purposes. I find it tragic that people refuse to accept that our nation's monetary policy leads to bankruptcy.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

What if all the piece of shit low life scum bags who cheat the system that are Americans stop? How much money will that save? The bastards that mooch and or cheat the welfare, section 8 housing, va benefits, disability etc etc etc etc???

Nobody wants to do shit about it. Nobody will ever do anything about it. People will only bitch and things will get PROGRESSIVELY worse until collapse.

[MED]

While I do respect the opinion of everyone, I do find it interesting or rather amusing, on how well we all have forgotten on how North America was raised, on how the principles became, and how we started our Republic, Union, State...

There are two major factors when looking at this argument. 1) There were no entitlements and the government wasn't operating in a deficit. When my family came here in the 18th and 19th centuries, they paid there own way and carved out homes in the wilderness. 2) There was room back then; and even though there was plenty of room, the existing population was uprooted and moved. So, is that what we want to happen to us? There is no guarantee that we or our children will have this land unless we protect it. I guess, I am one of the NO Vacancy advocates; the time of bringing people here is over; we are full; no other first world country allows fluid borders like we do.

[davsel]

While I do respect the opinion of everyone, I do find it interesting or rather amusing, on how well we all have forgotten on how North America was raised, on how the principles became, and how we started our Republic, Union, State...

Our forefathers, our ancestors, our great great grandfathers, they all came into this land, not by legal means, no one had papers to sign, ( in the beginning that is ) even our Statue of Liberty on the very plates written on it, " Give me your sick, the poor " So forth, I agree that if you want to have a better living ( dream ) you should go by the legal system, but not many can do so, because of the amount of time\money that is needed, we are all immigrants, non of us are native to this land, except the men living in the so called reserves, granted our economic system is affected by it, but it also thrives from it, at least for those whom spend the money in our soil, the change that we are speaking about on this forum, we are talking about changing a system that allowed this, since the day the people from the Old World came to the New World, to change this, implies on changing the whole ideals and laws of how our country was created, like it or not we are all immigrants, we where just lucky enough to be born in here. I agree on the laws of immigration that should be modified, but to kick out those who are in need, those who only want a chance to become better men and provide for their families, it is just pure hypocrisy, all of our ancestors came here by no legal means, they gave it all for us, yes there are those whom only want to take advantage of us and milk the system and provide nothing good, those I agree that should be kicked out, but those who want to excel and provide to our great Country, those should be give the benefit of the doubt .

As for jobs, I find it a weak argument, there are plenty of jobs out there, many of those jobs, most of us will not do it for X and Y reasons, our corporations are leaving state side weather we have illegals or not, they do not give a shit about anything, except for profits, we almost no longer produce like back in the day, most of our stuff comes from China...

" Stop providing welfare to them. Without education, housing, and medical, they will have to leave. Sure, patch them up at the ER, but as soon as they are able to travel, toss them back over the fence. And send the bill to Mexico or Canada - wherever they came across in the first place.[/COLOR]
Start prosecuting every business and individual that hires illegals. Without any income, they will have to leave.[/COLOR]
Start rounding them up and pitching them over the fence into Nuevo Laredo. You will soon see the rest of them fleeing back across a safer section of the border. "


^ This is debatable, as many will not return, they already left everything to come up, what makes you think they will simply give up and go back ? Our Forefathers did not...
It might create a bigger issue, more crime, less educated people ( right now we are hurting for education ) the D party will not let it happen since they need their votes, most of the companies\corps have deep ties with the local gov, this will go no where, no I do not have a negative mentality but it is the hard cold truth.

And to make it clear, I do not support illegal immigration, but I do support the idea on giving a chance to those who can provide for our awesome Country and\or those who want to better them selves and provide to their families that will provide to us the people.

Just a thought

I was hoping to see a /SARC tag at the bottom of this post.

Let's be clear on the history of America's founding and early immigration.
Early immigrants came here for the opportunity of a better life. The vast majority came here legally, they learned English, and adopted the customs of their new home. "E Pluribus Unum"
We no longer have the "Unum" due to the "celebrate diversity" nonsense shoved down our throats. A state will not survive without unity - cultural unity. Never has, never will.

Most of today's immigrants also come here for the opportunity of a better life. However, the vast majority come here illegally, they have no desire or need to speak anything other than their native language, and they now have special protections covering their homeland's customs. The state is not stronger for their presence.

It's over. We can never get it back.

[Aloha_Shooter]

davsel, when you say "the vast majority came here legally," realize that there wasn't a huge formalized process for most of the 19th century. America pretty much welcomed anyone who got off a boat. With no welfare system, you either learned to be productive or you died.

A lot of the objections raised in this thread were raised against the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. immigrants 100 or more years ago.

Reagan pointed out 30 years ago that even in the midst of the Carter Recession (which was far worse than the Bush Recession despite what the mass media say but not quite as bad as the Obama Continued-Recession), you could find Help Wanted ads running that weren't being filled. Despite what people want to say about getting rid of the illegals and Americans will fill the jobs, the fact of the matter is that there were and continue to be tons of jobs that Americans don't seem to want to take. I blame the social welfare system for much of this but regardless of how you assign blame, it's a fact of life.

Every economic boom in our country's history has been preceded by an immigration wave. What we need to do is harness the energy of immigrants who are hungry for a new life but weed out those who are simply parasites or infections.

[lc_nab]

I was hoping to see a /SARC tag at the bottom of this post.

Let's be clear on the history of America's founding and early immigration.
Early immigrants came here for the opportunity of a better life. The vast majority came here legally, they learned English, and adopted the customs of their new home. "E Pluribus Unum"
We no longer have the "Unum" due to the "celebrate diversity" nonsense shoved down our throats. A state will not survive without unity - cultural unity. Never has, never will.

You speak of the history of America's founding, but what makes you think that the vast majority came here legally ? I do hope that you are being sarcastic, on the " learned English and adopted the customs to the new home " they brought their own custom, when the first settlers came, what makes you think they where all " English " there was cultural diversity since the day one,

Most of today's immigrants also come here for the opportunity of a better life. However, the vast majority come here illegally, they have no desire or need to speak anything other than their native language, and they now have special protections covering their homeland's customs. The state is not stronger for their presence.

It's over. We can never get it back.

You speak of the history of America's founding, but what makes you think that the vast majority came here legally ? I do hope that you are being sarcastic, on the " learned English and adopted the customs to the new home " they brought their own custom, when the first settlers came, what makes you think they where all " English " or all spoke English ? There was cultural diversity since the day one, but they all had one thing in mind and they all agreed to it, and that is to a new beginning, history has proven that when the state tries to force " cultural unity " the state breaks apart and fails. Another point to the " cultural unity" Yes we will never have it, but it is not because of the illegal immigrants, but because of everyone, but only one thing is clear with all of us, it does not matter where we come from, when the time comes, we will all be united when it is time to defend our State.

I understand that, we need to stop the illegal immigration or create other methods to promote legal immigration, but when you state it like that " they have no desire or need to speak our language " I ask you this, did we have or have any desire to speak Navajo ?

[lc_nab]

davsel, when you say "the vast majority came here legally," realize that there wasn't a huge formalized process for most of the 19th century. America pretty much welcomed anyone who got off a boat. With no welfare system, you either learned to be productive or you died.

A lot of the objections raised in this thread were raised against the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. immigrants 100 or more years ago.

Reagan pointed out 30 years ago that even in the midst of the Carter Recession (which was far worse than the Bush Recession despite what the mass media say but not quite as bad as the Obama Continued-Recession), you could find Help Wanted ads running that weren't being filled. Despite what people want to say about getting rid of the illegals and Americans will fill the jobs, the fact of the matter is that there were and continue to be tons of jobs that Americans don't seem to want to take. I blame the social welfare system for much of this but regardless of how you assign blame, it's a fact of life.

Every economic boom in our country's history has been preceded by an immigration wave. What we need to do is harness the energy of immigrants who are hungry for a new life but weed out those who are simply parasites or infections.

My thoughts exactly.

[muddywings]

I'm a pretty simple fella (and short on time).
You want open borders like it was 100 years ago, get rid of the welfare state system we developed over the past 100 years.
You want a welfare state, then close the borders--the few producers left can't feed the moochers.
Ya can't have both.
bye

[davsel]

All Indian arguments are wasted on me.
There are too many glaringly obvious reasons a civilized population would choose to conquer a savage population rather than adopt its customs. Give it a rest.

Yes, I blame the welfare system currently in play. Without it, Americans, and immigrants both legal and illegal, would have reason to get off their couch or starve.
Our current system invites the dregs to come and squat on our country.
I read yesterday that the greatest health risk to the "poor" in America is obesity.

[mcantar18c]

One of my main problems with illegal immigrants is their attitudes towards the US vs those of legal immigrants (generally). Legal immigrants like America. Illegal immigrants like their countries and are only interested in using America.
The people who are willing to put in the time and effort to become legal citizens seem to give a shit. They are American citizens, and they achieved that because they cared enough to. They put American flag stickers on their (insured) cars and celebrate the 4th of July with the rest of the country. They're fucking proud of it. They might have pride in their home country as well, but they came here because it's better here and they not only accept but embrace that fact. You ask them what they are, they say "I am an American!"
Illegals generally seem to just not give a shit. They're not Americans, they're _____. They cane here because they heard thatthey can make x amount of money here and send it home, that here they can get free health care and education, they don't care to contribute anything to the country (like taxes), they're fucking leaches. You ask them what they are, they say "I am a Mehican!" Because that's what they identify themselves as. These are the assholes who celebrate Cinco de Mayo like it's the best day of the year and tell their kids they don't have to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance in school or give half a second's thought to the 4th of July. They hang little flags on their mirrors from some other country so that everybody else can see.
In short, there's a critical difference in how they self-identify.