Massad Ayoob: Terrorism in America, the Armed Citizen's View, interesting article

[sellersm]

Massad has written an article for Backwoods Home, entitled "Terrorism in America, the Armed Citizen's View": http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob150.html

I find this quote rather interesting, wondering if there should be more training in disarming techniques for the CCW citizen?

Hand-to-hand combat, by definition, only works at hand-to-hand distance. Trying to punch, kick, or throw human monsters armed with guns does not have a great history of success, so your best bet is to effectively learn disarming. Properly taught, this will be a structured system that attacks the weapon rather than the man holding it, using your initial movement to deflect the gun barrel away from you (or another intended victim) and then flowing into a leverage-based movement pattern that rips the weapon out of the malefactor's hands.

At Massad Ayoob Group LLC, we teach a system based on the work of Jim Lindell, in my opinion the leading expert on disarming and on gun retention, which is defeating a Bad Guy's attempt to disarm the Good Guy. In the Pacific Northwest, Firearms Academy of Seattle also teaches this to qualified private citizens; such systems are normally taught only to police. Few conventional martial arts dojos have anything this effective, so for local training your best bet is to seek out a Krav Maga school. It has been my experience that most, if not all, Krav Maga instructors will teach very effective leverage-based gun disarming.

[GilpinGuy]

Another awesome article by Ayoob.

[Ronin13]

To add one bit that Mr. Ayoob either didn't know or forgot to mention- when doing a disarming technique (as taught in Krav Maga and a few other disciplines)- one heavy, hard strike to the head after the firearm's barrel has been deflected, will aid in removing the weapon from their grip.

[275RLTW]

Sounds like a sales pitch for his new classes. I not saying that there is no place for unarmed combatives but Ayoob's motives are usually financially based.

[Monky]

Funny that it does mention the classes his group teaches.. nothing like a shameless plug!

Martial arts is funny when it comes to weapons.. It's not something you can just jump in to depending on the school. Krav does have some real basic disarm techniques that are simple and effective. I've been in that blue suit.. it's not all that fun. I miss Krav.. I need to go back..

[Jer]

IMO if you're evaluating the threat as 'innocent little Johnny' or a 'goat poker' you're already in the wrong mindset for self defense. A threat is a threat is a threat and if I'm armed (if I'm breathing I'm armed) then I'm meeting said threat with force of action until it's no longer a threat. I'll deal with emotions (what are those) and potential litigation in the weeks/months/years that follow but I'll be alive to address them. Anything short of that takes you a step (of four) the wrong direction to being able to deal with those things if you get my drift.

Someone tells me about a problem and then in the same breath offers something that can solve it at his profit and I have to question the source's motives & the severity of said problem.

[Gunservant]

I recognise the benefits of unarmed combat skills, but personally it comes down to prioritization for me:
I don't have a lot of time on my hands: I work full-time plus studying after hours (and I'm married , which comes with its own responsibilities), so I really have to choose carefully what I am going to focus on. Personally it makes more sense for me to spend the scarce free time I have mastering handgun techniques and drills, as opposed to trying to squeeze unarmed combatives in there too. My EDC handgun is afterall what I consider my primary weapon, and I am paranoid about maintaining (if not improving) my proficiency with it.

Perhaps I'm looking at this wrong, but then again that is what a forum is for: debate.

[Ronin13]

I recognise the benefits of unarmed combat skills, but personally it comes down to prioritization for me:
I don't have a lot of time on my hands: I work full-time plus studying after hours (and I'm married , which comes with its own responsibilities), so I really have to choose carefully what I am going to focus on. Personally it makes more sense for me to spend the scarce free time I have mastering handgun techniques and drills, as opposed to trying to squeeze unarmed combatives in there too. My EDC handgun is afterall what I consider my primary weapon, and I am paranoid about maintaining (if not improving) my proficiency with it.

Perhaps I'm looking at this wrong, but then again that is what a forum is for: debate.

Ah a new member, from SA no less... Welcome.
My point of contention with your post is simple- what do you do when a threat disarms you, or puts you into a position where you are physically unable to draw your weapon? I'm a big advocate of training in all aspects of EDC, and one of those is self defense without a weapon. There are several disciplines that teach disarming techniques that can be easily attained for anyone with the desire to- I personally improve my current LE training with Krav Maga, but other mixed martial arts gyms teach various techniques that once you get the basics and fundamentals down are easy to continue learning and begin to introduce into muscle memory (as Foxtrot so eloquently put it). Until training becomes an instinctive reaction, keep going. And then when it is instinctive, keep training. Many things, like shooting, driving, and hand-to-hand are perishable skills.

[Jer]

Ah a new member, from SA no less... Welcome.
My point of contention with your post is simple- what do you do when a threat disarms you, or puts you into a position where you are physically unable to draw your weapon? I'm a big advocate of training in all aspects of EDC, and one of those is self defense without a weapon. There are several disciplines that teach disarming techniques that can be easily attained for anyone with the desire to- I personally improve my current LE training with Krav Maga, but other mixed martial arts gyms teach various techniques that once you get the basics and fundamentals down are easy to continue learning and begin to introduce into muscle memory (as Foxtrot so eloquently put it). Until training becomes an instinctive reaction, keep going. And then when it is instinctive, keep training. Many things, like shooting, driving, and hand-to-hand are perishable skills.

Get MY gun from me? Good luck with all that. If the BG gets my gun from me then I probably froze & probably wouldn't be able to call up my hand to hand training either. You're now talking about a long shot within a long shot within a long shot that you're training for. At some point your ROI for training is diminutive and I think that's what he's talking about. Sure he can budget his time to train for the 0.00000001% likelihood but it would take away from his training for the 0.00001% likelihood in his case.

[Gunservant]

Get MY gun from me? Good luck with all that. If the BG gets my gun from me then I probably froze & probably wouldn't be able to call up my hand to hand training either. You're now talking about a long shot within a long shot within a long shot that you're training for. At some point your ROI for training is diminutive and I think that's what he's talking about. Sure he can budget his time to train for the 0.00000001% likelihood but it would take away from his training for the 0.00001% likelihood in his case.

Pretty much exactly what I was trying to infer.