Massad Ayoob: Terrorism in America, the Armed Citizen's View, interesting article

[Ronin13]

Get MY gun from me? Good luck with all that. If the BG gets my gun from me then I probably froze & probably wouldn't be able to call up my hand to hand training either. You're now talking about a long shot within a long shot within a long shot that you're training for. At some point your ROI for training is diminutive and I think that's what he's talking about. Sure he can budget his time to train for the 0.00000001% likelihood but it would take away from his training for the 0.00001% likelihood in his case.

Aside from you being Bruce Lee or Jason Borne, there are cases, while yes, you're correct they are rare, there are still cases of assailants using a victim's firearm against them. I'm not saying take away from good firearms training to train for a scenario that is unlikely to happen (unlikely does not mean impossible), but simply saying that to be well rounded in your training, why not utilize all tactics and incorporate them into your training regimen so you're better trained and more prepared for any scenario? Yes, I agree that it's a long shot, but what happens when that long shot happens and you're unable to meet the threat? It's that same line we've heard before: "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

[hurley842002]

Aside from you being Bruce Lee or Jason Borne, there are cases, while yes, you're correct they are rare, there are still cases of assailants using a victim's firearm against them. I'm not saying take away from good firearms training to train for a scenario that is unlikely to happen (unlikely does not mean impossible), but simply saying that to be well rounded in your training, why not utilize all tactics and incorporate them into your training regimen so you're better trained and more prepared for any scenario? Yes, I agree that it's a long shot, but what happens when that long shot happens and you're unable to meet the threat? It's that same line we've heard before: "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

Yes, a lot of training and being well rounded is ideal, however you seem to be speaking from the single with no children, expendable time and money camp. I used to spend lots of time at the gym, partake in Krav a couple times a week, and put rounds down range once a week. I'm married now, with two kids and no money, I'm happy getting to the gym for an hour 5 days a week. I guess life is about priorities.

[Jer]

Aside from you being Bruce Lee or Jason Borne, there are cases, while yes, you're correct they are rare, there are still cases of assailants using a victim's firearm against them. I'm not saying take away from good firearms training to train for a scenario that is unlikely to happen (unlikely does not mean impossible), but simply saying that to be well rounded in your training, why not utilize all tactics and incorporate them into your training regimen so you're better trained and more prepared for any scenario? Yes, I agree that it's a long shot, but what happens when that long shot happens and you're unable to meet the threat? It's that same line we've heard before: "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

That's the point. I DO have a gun so I do NOT need to worry about training on how to disarm. My gun IS my method for disarming a threat & just about as effective as you can get with minimal margin for error especially at ranges you're talking about physically disarming someone. There's nobody on the face of this earth that would make me take pause if they had a gun & meant to do me harm with it. A threat is another paper target to me. I may have an emotional reaction but that will come after the fact. I don't make habit of presenting my firearm w/o using it in an effort to diffuse the situation. If it comes out it will be firing a string or rounds into the threat starting in a time that is impossible for the human brain to register let alone act on. That's my chosen method for disarming an assailant. I was in Tae Kwon Do long enough as a youth to know that it's a wonderful form of exercise, a good way to teach discipline and a great way to keep wayward youths out of trouble. That being said, in all my street fights as a youth I never got into my stance and summoned from my training. I reverted to street fighting which I was good at and it always worked. That's instinctual. I don't see martial arts as a viable solution in a gun fight. If you're just looking for something to do I will agree that this is as good a hobby as any. If you're talking about most people having to squeeze yet another thing into their day I'm not sure this is something that's worthy of the time invested for most people reading this.

[275RLTW]

... but other mixed martial arts gyms teach various techniques that once you get the basics and fundamentals down are easy to continue learning and begin to introduce into muscle memory (as Foxtrot so eloquently put it). Until training becomes an instinctive reaction, keep going. And then when it is instinctive, keep training.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

if something is instinctive, why do you have to practice it? Muscles don't have memory either...you want to say "mylinazation" which means new pathways via nerve cells and creating a direct patch for that given action. If you want to see your "instinctive" actions, have someone scare you.

[Skully]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

Am I the only one that caught that?

I loved that movie;



I have read through each post of this thread (lot of opinion and facts) and by no means I have no true experience or training to add in anything useful, but I do have this.

A quote from my late father; "Do what you not only feel comfortable doing, but most important of all is knowing what you are actually capable of doing first."

Where did I heard my Dad make that quote and why it stuck in my head?

Story time;
Many moons ago, I was like 10, my Aunt at the time had spent 10+ years taking judo and other martial arts. At a family event, she started bragging. My dad and her got in this huge debate much like this thread BTW, quotes from experts here and there. They were both stubborn and my aunt was going to "show him, her skills and prove him wrong."

He is handed a toy gun from my collection and she told him to act out him pointing the gun at her to rob her or whatever and she would disarm him and get away. Just for a note My dad was 8" taller and 3x her weight and had tree trunks for arms, but I would not consider him a "Big Guy."

First try he simply overpowered her and put the gun to her chest and made a bang sound and stated; "Your Dead" while he smiled evilly knowing he was right.

This infuriated my aunt, she spent all this time practicing, practicing, and practicing. She got so mad and made my dad stand in different positions, different angles. Each time my Dad just overpowered her small frame, I just remember this carried on for like 45 minutes. She even tried to flip him and he just picked her up.

Last time she tried he laughed and said; "Here you go, you need the GUN more than I do." That is when he made that famous quote I mentioned above.

That is all I have, goodnight.

[Gunservant]

Thanks for the welcome

I am absolutely not dismissing the value of unarmed combat skills. I have a limited repertoire of weapon retention skills, and those I practice often, but most of my time goes into practicing shooting and drills. One day when I have more time, I will definitely dedicate more time to unarmed combatives.

[SamuraiCO]

Instinctive is the easiest way to explain to lay people what "mylinazation" means.

Training disarm techniques doesn't take that long to learn. Practice will be like any skill and the movement will slow down as you get better. You will think you are going slow but someone watching will see you moving very fast.

[Ronin13]

Again, my point is lost on this discussion. I was just making a suggestion, follow it or not, it's not me or my life.

[hurley842002]

Again, my point is lost on this discussion. I was just making a suggestion, follow it or not, it's not me or my life.

I don't think your point is lost at all, in fact I agree with everything you said. I was merely stating that being as "well rounded" as you are suggesting isn't feasible for most people.

[275RLTW]

Aside from you being Bruce Lee or Jason Borne, there are cases, while yes, you're correct they are rare, there are still cases of assailants using a victim's firearm against them. I'm not saying take away from good firearms training to train for a scenario that is unlikely to happen (unlikely does not mean impossible), but simply saying that to be well rounded in your training, why not utilize all tactics and incorporate them into your training regimen so you're better trained and more prepared for any scenario? Yes, I agree that it's a long shot, but what happens when that long shot happens and you're unable to meet the threat? It's that same line we've heard before: "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

Again, my point is lost on this discussion. I was just making a suggestion, follow it or not, it's not me or my life.

So what training are you taking outside of the academy to become "more rounded?" Or do you think the police academy is all you need?