Oklahoma, Nebraska Challenge Colorado Marijuana Legalization

[XC700116]

I doubt it. 42 US 1983 would be the only avenue of standing and I doubt they are crazy enough to say "Screw you, I don't care if you don't consent I'm searching anyway". Them bullying "consent" or selectively pulling over CO drivers because they are CO drivers isn't much of a litigation risk (because generally speaking, their isn't standing under 42 US 1983 and the 11th amendment provides them all other protection).

Basically, they are likely filing the lawsuit because they disagree in principle, and because it does theoretically roll over lines. That's what it boils down to. Which again, I don't have a problem with in principle. If the suit fails, the suit fails. But the right to sue in these circumstances is very important.

Everyone's objection here seems to be rooted in "they don't like weed, we do, HISS". It's not like the respective states are realistically looking to make money off of this. Ultimately, authority will be created from this, likely in your favor. So everyone "quitcherbitchin" . Bear in mind most successful firearm cases that expanded our rights come from either denials of rights or criminal prosecutions.

My objection to this whole thing has nothing to do with liking or disliking weed. I've never tried it in my life, and most likely never will. It has everything to do with how CO residents have been treated on the roadways of neighboring states, and the fact that some d-bags have decided to blow more of the taxpayers $$ fighting back and forth in the courts. The tax payers are going to lose on this, nobody else.

and for instance

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25...-license-plate
(also stating 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment violations)
Youtube video of portion of the stop in question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfP0piDFVCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=allGdr38L7c

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...n-other-states

In that last link, you'll notice the stats from Deuel county in NE were as follows

The State Patrol pulls over more Colorado drivers in Duel County, Nebraska than drivers from any other state, including Nebraska. In-state drivers were cited 490 times, while 577 citations were issued to Colorado drivers by Nebraska State Patrol in Deuel County.

Nebraska State Patrol Citations & Warnings/Violations Issued in Deuel County:

• 2,400 citations total, 7,481 warnings/violations total
• Colorado drivers: 577 citations, 1858 warnings/violations
• Nebraska drivers: 490 citations, 1742 warnings/violations

Simply put, I know what I'll do if pulled over in my personal vehicle, I'm not going to be a dick, but I'm not going to consent to a search either, and if they do it anyway, or if they get a warrant to do it because of my plate, I WILL sue them, simply out of principle. And I travel out of state a LOT, like nearly every week for work, and probably 20-30 times a year in my personal vehicle.

IMHO if you're breaking the law you have it coming to get busted, I'm not going to cry for those that get caught with pot outside of CO, because it's illegal there, don't take it there dumbass and you won't have that problem, however it really pisses me off when you have cops harassing people and running them through the ringer because they have CO plates like the ID cop in that first clip that has resulted in a lawsuit already. There will be more of them, it's only a matter of time.

They are skating on a lot of it because they can document some stupid minor infraction to pull them over, but when they are doing it to CO licensed vehicles at a higher rate than any other, including their home state, that adds up to profiling, plain and simple, and when they make the mistake of doing it to someone who's got their shit wired, their going to have a backlash.

[XC700116]

I know to "lay" people my perspective may seem strange but I live in reality. Here is the news flash: You basically cannot do shit about what you gripe about. UNLESS they search your vehicle without your consent, they have free license to profile CO plates and there is jack shit you can do about it. While you are mad about this State v. State litigation... the State of CO *might* have a better chance of overcoming immunity issues if it were ever to take this on behalf of its citizens. And it has every right to file cross claims.

So where do you think the most probable *successful* resolution comes from?

And therein lies the problem, and the crux of my whole issue with this BS. They seem to have done some of that or they do the old, we'll stay here until we get the warrant song and dance and people sucker to it. Point I'm making is that when they do pull that rabbit out of the hat, they better not do it to someone that both knows their rights, is willing to go toe to toe with them for it, and is clean.

I've followed what you've posted here about the case you're involved in and I have no doubt that you know what you're talking about. And it's quite possibly one of the biggest shit shows of local govt corruption I've heard of. It's just the simple fact that this situations existence is so ridiculous that it's infuriating. The idea that I or anyone else should have to just suck it up and take it because deputy douche-bag in the next state thinks that everyone with a CO tag is smuggling ditch weed is absurd. Like I said, I know what I'll do, and if it happens to me, I know I'll have no weed in my vehicle to find, and I'll make them work for the opportunity too.

As for a "successful" resolution, the best thing would IMO be just legalize the shit coast to coast, tax it heavily with the taxes set aside to cover some of the ills that come with it and move the fuck on already. But that's a pipe dream I know, that'd be like government working via some common sense. The sheer number of taxpayer dollars tied up in dealing with MJ from a legal perspective is absolutely retarded, and this lawsuit and the enforcement measures used to establish NE and OK's "claim" for the lawsuit is only further proof of the idiocy that is our current state of affairs regarding this issue, among MANY others.

[Irving]

As for a "successful" resolution, the best thing would IMO be just legalize the shit coast to coast, tax it heavily with the taxes set aside to cover some of the ills that come with it and move the fuck on already.

[XC700116]

I know I shouldn't wish that on anything, but honestly, when you consider the way that alcohol, tobacco, and NFA items are taxed, I figure, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Simply put it would put it back on par with the rest of the things in this country that are regulated by the .gov Anyone who thinks that a tax isn't going to come along with it, if it were to happen is completely off their rocker, it's WAY too ripe of a target. That and in return for not being chased by cops and dealing with the illegality issue, you pay a tax on it. Yeah that seems like extortion, but it's no different than any other tax we pay, in order to avoid having to fight the tax man in court.

Then considder that there already is, and will be a perception of more ills related to it and it's legalization, that would shortciruit the objections based on the damage to the public treasury due to it's legalization. Then considder the fact that it's pretty tough to tax your garden, and you get the opportunity to grow your own for your own uses if you see fit. If not IMHO why should it be sheltered from taxes any differently than any other item that's bought and sold. Hell even a straight up sales tax (local standard sales taxes like you pay on anything) would probably suffice for the funds needed to offset any costs. Especially when you considder the savings to the public that not having to deal with it in it's current form would produce.

Point being, IMO, you can't expect to legalize a commodity, and not have it taxed. And when you compare the taxes attached to Alcohol and Tobacco, I think that qualifies as both fair in context and HEAVILY.

[Irving]

No one ever said it should be legal without the commerce portion being taxed, but why heavily? You didn't (and can't) supply an argument for HEAVY taxation. Heavy taxing won't keep the police off your back, because no amount of heavy taxing is going to make up for the loss of departments stealing money and product for people accused of running drugs.

[XC700116]

No one ever said it should be legal without the commerce portion being taxed, but why heavily? You didn't (and can't) supply an argument for HEAVY taxation. Heavy taxing won't keep the police off your back, because no amount of heavy taxing is going to make up for the loss of departments stealing money and product for people accused of running drugs.

Hahahahahaha, maybe. But if it's legalized coast to coast (in a similar fashion to Alcohol and Tobacco), the cops can't really do jack about it. Granted if you're hauling bails across the border from Mexico, you're going to have problems, but to the average joe pot smoker, there isn't shit they could do anymore.

Anyway my point being, my version of heavy taxation and others may be different.

Look at tobacco for instance, That's what I would consider HEAVY Taxation. CO has a state excise tax of 84 cents per pack of cigs or can of chew, then the feds tack on $1.01 for a grand total of roughly 37% on top of standard sales tax. IMO that's a HEAVY tax and IMO MJ shouldn't be regulated nor taxed any differently. Spirits are taxed in CO at a rate of $2.28 per gallon, beer at a rate of 8 cents per gallon wine at 32 cents per gallon. Those are all in addition to sales tax and federal excise taxes. Hell Gasoline is taxed at nearly 40 cents per gallon on average here between CO and Fed taxes (depends on price but that is 2014's average). IMO anything that's taxed above and beyond standard sales taxes assigned to regular items is HEAVILY taxed.

And as I've said before, why should MJ be exempt to these same taxes that are placed on Alcohol, tobacco, and Gasoline? NFA items hell, I just paid a $200 tax on top of sales tax for a suppressor that cost $450, That's a tax rate of 50.4%!!!!!

Now finally consider the amount of tax revenue from tobacco in CO, In 2011 the annual tax revenue was $200,594,000 I'm willing to bet that's a LOT more than the value of drug related seizures. see http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=403 (and notice the figures shown are thousands of dollars so multiply each number by 1000 to get the total $$ in tax revenue)

Now consider the projected numbers for CO Revenue from MJ this year at the current rate of 12.9% (less than half that of tobacco BTW) is $610 million, that makes up for a hell of a lot of cars, houses, cash, and other misc stuff being seized and sold at auction.

[Irving]

I understand what you are saying, I just can't bring myself to say that because one thing is heavily taxed, then something else should be, because I believe too strongly that neither should be heavily taxed. I think the Federal gas tax is closer to $1.00 a gallon isn't it? I can't argue right now that weed is any different than any other product that has a sin tax put on it.

[XC700116]

I understand what you are saying, I just can't bring myself to say that because one thing is heavily taxed, then something else should be, because I believe too strongly that neither should be heavily taxed. I think the Federal gas tax is closer to $1.00 a gallon isn't it? I can't argue right now that weed is any different than any other product that has a sin tax put on it.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/sta...ohol-tax-rates

Federal gas taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon, that's tax only not all the epa fees, tank fees, etc on top of that, which is a tax of course, but like Obama care and CO license plates we're supposed to believe that those aren't taxes. Not to mention the upstream taxes of petro products during the extraction, refining, and logistical processes (this is roughly the same on all products in that those taxes are ultimately paid by the consumer as they are passed down in the costs of production)

I agree in a perfect world none of these things should be taxed the way they are, but in the reality of the situation, if you're taking something that's currently prohibited, like MJ and previously Alcohol, to think it's not going to get the same scrutiny and thereby taxes, is just not realistic. Hell Gasoline and diesel are 100% necessary to the function of our economy and they aren't immune to it. Simply put its better to tax it and get something back into the .gov for it than it is to spend billions a year trying to prohibit it. Maybe (and I realize this is completely star eyed) it could provide an avenue to lighten up on some of the other taxes we all have to pay, a portion of which is dedicated to fighting the "war on drugs" aka bottomless hole of tax dollars wasted over stupidity.

[Eric P]

All sin taxes should be done away with since they have been proven ineffective in curbing the consumption of the products they are taxing. The ATF should be abolished as tobacco & alcohol don't need federal oversight or regulation. These should be state regulated. And are they really using the taxes for the stated purpose? Isn't Colorado's tobacco tax used to fund child healthcare? The MJ tax is for schools. None of the taxes are being used to address the negative social aspects of the products.

We need to stop adding power and taxation ability to the federal government. If the feds would decriminalize MJ, the states would be free to do as their citizens see fit. But then why should a product that is legal in 1 state be illegal in others. I don't see how state gun laws pass this test. A piece of plastic in WY is legal, but not in CO.

[XC700116]

All sin taxes should be done away with since they have been proven ineffective in curbing the consumption of the products they are taxing. The ATF should be abolished as tobacco & alcohol don't need federal oversight or regulation. These should be state regulated. And are they really using the taxes for the stated purpose? Isn't Colorado's tobacco tax used to fund child healthcare? The MJ tax is for schools. None of the taxes are being used to address the negative social aspects of the products.

We need to stop adding power and taxation ability to the federal government. If the feds would decriminalize MJ, the states would be free to do as their citizens see fit. But then why should a product that is legal in 1 state be illegal in others. I don't see how state gun laws pass this test. A piece of plastic in WY is legal, but not in CO.

In principal, I 100% agree, but the facts of the reality we deal with now are a whole other story. ie It'll never happen under current governmental and societal status.

Simply put the only way the majority of people in this country (and more so those in government) would go for it is under similar regulation as Alcohol and Tobacco, and with that similar regulation will come similar or more taxation.

Look at how long it took for it to be taxed in CO, on ballot initiative no less, imagine if it went federally, it wouldn't make it a day past legalization and the House would introduce an excise tax bill on it, if it wasn't already included in the decriminalization bill.

It's just the reality of the situation we live in, do I wish it were different, absolutely. I wish the EPA, BATFE, USDA, DEA, TSA, FEMA, most of the FBI and IRS (if not all), and most every other federal government agency were disbanded tomorrow, as honestly they don't have a charter in the constitution for their existence, but I guarantee that's not going to happen anytime soon, and if it ever does happen, it's not going to be a fun road to get there.

As to the part of your post that I put in bold, basically they pass the smell test because of the way the constitution was written and intended, it's a set of restrictions on the federal government, not the individual states, and unless it's specifically listed as a function of the federal government it's left to the states. So in the first half of that statement as regards to pot, you have it right in how it's supposed to be, however the gun issue has been tested in the SC many times and the SC seems to think that shall not be infringed doesn't necessarily apply to all forms of arms, and it's why we have to have organizations like the NRA and our fight never seems to end. By strict letter of the constitution, the GCA and NFA are simply unconstitutional (because they are federal), but somewhere along the line that's been lost.