Free community college!

[cstone]

The private student loan industry can't survive without indentured servitude so they'll loan anyone money that can fog a mirror. Most don't even understand the promissory note they and/or their parents sign.

I was under the impression that the federal government had nationalized the private student loan industry. This happened when the terms of the note made it impossible for anyone to default on their note. It is now a debt that will follow you to your grave if you do not satisfy the terms. Indentured servitude at least had a term limit. I believe the proper analogy would be self sold into slavery with an option to redeem yourself. It is easier to break an enlistment contract than the terms of a student loan today.

For those terms, the benefit should be very great indeed and I am fairly certain that most degrees earned today do not meet the standard.

[brutal]

True, the fed removed your ability to discharge a federally backed student loan under bankruptcy. The student loan program as it exists today doesn't have to follow the fair credit act.

I believe there's still the largest bulk of debt pre 2010 that is serviced by private industry, much of that not federally backed. Banks sold private education loans, then sold them to predatory consolidators that use vile, sleazy, predatory practices.

It's a rag I hate referencing, but there's a really good read on the sleazy student loan industry on Rolling Stone if you can get past the conservative bashing. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...andal-20130815

[<MADDOG>]

I see the POTUS pointing over there and saying "look, shiny".

Perhaps I'm ignorant but what jobs are these proposed AA/AS degree holders supposed to fill?

Or is this a means to pay for a Bachelors at half the price?

If that's the case, what jobs are these proposed BA/BS degree holders supposed to fill?

I'm sorry, I see this a supply/demand issue. We hear of and see articles all the time about new graduates with XYZ degree with (insert number here) of college debt living in the mommy's and daddy's basement.

I also agree with MarkCO & cstone. From of my perspective in the MEP construction in the industrial/manufacturing markets (in two areas of the US now), there are very, very few sub-30 year old tradesman either working in, or on, these two markets (which here in NC/SC are booming), and there are openings that simply cannot be filled. As these jobs start off well above a service industry job, this leads me to two conclusions; somehow people have forgotten you have to start somewhere (IE: don't expect to be paid like the top dog if you are new to the trade), and many people, especially millennials, simply do not want to do physical work (generalizations of course). I think Mike Rowe has hit this topic well, so I'll leave it at that.

IMO, the POTUS is better off actually defining the term "work" to the zombies and to help in creating the atmosphere for job creation in the US. Instead, we will have another blow to our nation's debt and an even greater sense of entitlement to the masses.

[Rucker61]

The first thing I thought of when I heard this idea was how it would need to work logistically. Once in place, it would create a great new level of demand for seats in classrooms in community colleges, seats that aren't currently available. Someone has to finance the construction of many new community colleges. We'd also see a lessening of demand for seats in four year universities, putting current adjunct and TA's out of work. Of course, they could go to work at the new CC's when they opened up, at even less money than they're making now. Given the loss of revenue from students not attending their freshman and sophomore years, 4 year schools would need to raise their tuition to cover that loss. The other big kicker is that for this plan to work, all credits earned at CC will need to transfer to the 4 year school, and the only way that's going to happen is via government mandate. Given that requirement, current and new CC's will have no incentive to ensure that the courses they teach meet current standards for transfer, meaning that our new CC grads will be less educated than they are now. This isn't an idea, it's a sound bite.

[roberth]

I see the POTUS pointing over there and saying "look, shiny".

Perhaps I'm ignorant but what jobs are these proposed AA/AS degree holders supposed to fill?

Or is this a means to pay for a Bachelors at half the price?

If that's the case, what jobs are these proposed BA/BS degree holders supposed to fill?

I'm sorry, I see this a supply/demand issue. We here of and see articles all the time about new graduates with XYZ degree with (insert number here) of college debt living in the mommy's and daddy's basement.

I also agree with MarkCO & cstone. From of my perspective in the MEP construction in the industrial/manufacturing markets (in two areas of the US now), there are very, very few sub-30 year old tradesman either working in, or on, these two markets (which here in NC/SC are booming), and there are openings that simply cannot be filled. As these jobs start off well above a service industry job, this leads me to two conclusions; somehow people have forgotten you have to start somewhere (IE: don't expect to be paid like the top dog if you are new to the trade), and many people, especially millennials, simply do not want to do physical work (generalizations of course). I think Mike Rowe has hit this topic well, so I'll leave it at that.

IMO, the POTUS is better off actually defining the term "work" to the zombies and to help in creating the atmosphere for job creation in the US. Instead, we will have another blow to our nation's debt and even a greater sense of entitlement to the masses.

The first thing I thought of when I heard this idea was how it would need to work logistically. Once in place, it would create a great new level of demand for seats in classrooms in community colleges, seats that aren't currently available. Someone has to finance the construction of many new community colleges. We'd also see a lessening of demand for seats in four year universities, putting current adjunct and TA's out of work. Of course, they could go to work at the new CC's when they opened up, at even less money than they're making now. Given the loss of revenue from students not attending their freshman and sophomore years, 4 year schools would need to raise their tuition to cover that loss. The other big kicker is that for this plan to work, all credits earned at CC will need to transfer to the 4 year school, and the only way that's going to happen is via government mandate. Given that requirement, current and new CC's will have no incentive to ensure that the courses they teach meet current standards for transfer, meaning that our new CC grads will be less educated than they are now. This isn't an idea, it's a sound bite.

Oh come on, stop being logical and taking this topic to reasonable conclusions.

[<MADDOG>]

The first thing I thought of when I heard this idea was how it would need to work logistically. Once in place, it would create a great new level of demand for seats in classrooms in community colleges, seats that aren't currently available. Someone has to finance the construction of many new community colleges. We'd also see a lessening of demand for seats in four year universities, putting current adjunct and TA's out of work. Of course, they could go to work at the new CC's when they opened up, at even less money than they're making now. Given the loss of revenue from students not attending their freshman and sophomore years, 4 year schools would need to raise their tuition to cover that loss. The other big kicker is that for this plan to work, all credits earned at CC will need to transfer to the 4 year school, and the only way that's going to happen is via government mandate. Given that requirement, current and new CC's will have no incentive to ensure that the courses they teach meet current standards for transfer, meaning that our new CC grads will be less educated than they are now. This isn't an idea, it's a sound bite.

I see your point, but I think your argument is faulty. From my observation, the community colleges are well under maximum attendance, and struggle to compete against the the four year colleges. CC, CSU, UC, etc are doing well (hence the new dorms, new halls, etc).

Transfer credits from most of the community colleges in CO to the 4 year institutions named above is already in place. One can argue all day as to why those who attend the freshman & sophomore years at the 4 year colleges do what they do at a higher cost.

If indeed this model created a loss of revenue for the Universities, would it also not create a higher demand for the junior and senior years?

Not to mention, with a dash of a pen, these Universities could also go in to the AA/AS market.

[Eric P]

How about changing how we pay for college. Instead of giving a school $xxx,xxx per degree, you give a certain percentage of your gross pay after graduation for a fixed number of years.

For example, to get a BS, you would give the school 15% of your gross pay for 10 years after graduation. Add a Masters for 5 more years or 5%, add a doctorate for another 5 years or 5%. The school would be all inclusive, tuition, room & board, no summer break so most could finish in 4 years or less. You drop out, you owe nothing, since the school failed at educating you. You return to school or transfer to another school, your pay would be split between the schools based on the % of credits earned at each.

Not only would this help everyone afford college, but it would make people and institutions question what degrees they would go for or offer. If the average basket weaving grad makes minimum wage, colleges may stop offering the degree until there is a shortage of basket weavers and the pay increases so that the cost of the education is covered.

But this wont happen, because it could hijack the liberal indoctrination of our young adults while they attend 4 more years

[Rucker61]

I see your point, but I think your argument is faulty. From my observation, the community colleges are well under maximum attendance, and struggle to compete against the the four year colleges. CC, CSU, UC, etc are doing well (hence the new dorms, new halls, etc).

Transfer credits from most of the community colleges in CO to the 4 year institutions named above is already in place. One can argue all day as to why those who attend the freshman & sophomore years at the 4 year colleges do what they do at a higher cost.

If indeed this model created a loss of revenue for the Universities, would it also not create a higher demand for the junior and senior years?

Not to mention, with a dash of a pen, these Universities could also go in to the AA/AS market.

Good points all. I have no data on CC attendance, and assumed that in a free market that supply should be close to demand, or they'd go out of business/be closed. I'm aware that most credits do transfer but any new schools created still have to be accredited. Interesting point on the 4 year schools creating their own AA/AS programs; that sure would make them a lot less will to accept transfer credits from their competitors in the CC market. I'm not sure that demand for junior and senior years would be increased sufficiently to cover the loss of revenue - folks that got free school for two years still need to pay for the remaining portions, especially if the job market didn't look promising. We don't have enough jobs for college grads now; what will we do with a few million more? It's an interesting thought game, however.

[Stevensje]

Monthly we have been putting money in a college fund for our kids from day 1. I expect my kids to get as many AP credits In High school as possible to roll into college. If we hold our kids to a higher standard it will prepare them for more advanced degrees. "You want to be a basket weaver?" Then you are paying for it. If "free college" happens, the people who saved there entire life will end up paying the difference to makeup for the lazy fucks who didn't save. Not on my dime, grow up a get a real job.

[Guylee]

It'd be nice if veterans could take advantage too. The GI bill will only cover up to a bachelor's, I wouldn't hesitate to use that and then use the 2 years at CC for a trade-related skill.