Free community college!

[cstone]

Get rid of your liberal talking point drivel and bring something of value to this discussion.

Please do not make this into a personal argument.

[HoneyBadger]

Please do not make this into a personal argument.

Apologies.


Ridge, please substantiate your claims in writing.

[Ridge]

As already mentioned and demonstrated by many on this board: A college education does not guarantee wages. There are many jobs that do not require a college degree which make substantially more than the mean income of a college graduate.

Get rid of your liberal talking point drivel and bring something of value to this discussion.

You won't get a high level job in a corporation from being an apprentice. Not everybody wants to work in the service sector or a limited trade.

[Drucker]

If it were to pass the price of going to CCs would double at the least. 60B turns into 120B, the presses run on weekends to churn out the money. And everyone will still bemoan the cost of calling the plumber.

[cstone]

Which college did Bill Gates graduate from?

I'm not including honorary degrees.


Google this: billionaires without a college degree

[Ridge]

Which college did Bill Gates graduate from?

I'm not including honorary degrees.

He went to Harvard.

[Irving]

That only ensures the rich go to college. The poor can't, keeping them poor. Student loans should be provided based in how useful the degree will be for society.

I can't agree with this because we are talking about loans. If only the rich are going to college, loans shouldn't be a discussion. With that said it's the same as a business loan. You can't walk into a bank and expect to get a loan based on the "goodness" of your planned business. A loan is specifically about borrowing money and paying it back, therefor the ability to repay the money is really the only consideration. If the lender is interested in doing good for society, then they can donate money directly to that cause, and likely already do. It is certainly admirable that someone wishes to improve themselves and/or the world by going to college, but it is unrealistic to hope for that affecting the approval of borrowing money.

[Skip]

Some snippets from a discussion I had on Facebook about this:

What good is a nation full of people with meaningless or wasted college degrees? We will fall apart at the seams without the important and necessary jobs that don't require a college education. K-12 is designed to prepare everyone with a similar set of rudimentary skills that prepare them for their future path, whether it takes them to vocational school or med school.

Furthermore, publicly funded school performance is quite dismal across the board when compared to privately funded education venues. I went to one of the most prestigious and expensive publicly-funded colleges in the country and I didn't receive half the education that my brother, who went to a small privately-funded college, did. Look at the top 100 colleges rated every year in every category. How many of them are publicly funded? The reason I brought up the public vs private performance is because it really is the essence of our discussion. The private sector always has, and always will do it more efficiently and more effectively than a bureaucracy - which is exactly why higher education should never be publicly funded. (An argument can certainly be made that no education should be publicly funded, but I won't get into that here).

Those are good points about private institutions, but I don't think the goal here is to advance anyone, just keeping pace with the decline.

High School is nothing more than young adult child care at this point. So there has to be something to fill the gap and make future taxpayers seem employable.

Between this and min wage, they are creating some interesting new morality... My wife worked her tail off with an associates in a demanding field. Her starting pay was somewhere around $14/hour--this was not long ago. Of course with her hard work she made a lot more and landed a better job (less hours/stress).

Where is the incentive to work your way up (like many of us have/do) when everything is handed to you?

[XC700116]

That only ensures the rich go to college. The poor can't, keeping them poor. Student loans should be provided based in how useful the degree will be for society.

This logic always makes me LMFAO, it's simply FALSE. I grew up dirt poor, 99% of my clothes came from garage sales, My mother put herself through accounting school by trapping (yes my MOTHER).

I currently have 2 associate degrees, and am just short of a BA in management (cut short due to promotion at work and my job not allowing for me to finish it). I didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of but guess what, I still went to school and mom and dad didn't pay a penny of it and forbade me from applying for the .gov grant programs. Here's how.

I worked a full time job plus 2 different part time jobs in the summers, then during school I worked the 2 part time jobs. I graduated with my first associate degree with a grand total of $7K in student loans because I worked, got a couple small scholarships, and went to a trade school. I have zero problems with what C-stone posted, I could have still gotten the loans I did when I went to school with that provision because the program I went to had a proven track record for 100% placement for their graduates for a LONG time (like 15 years running). Then I worked in that field for 3 years for my first employer, then took a job with the company I work for now. My company offers a tuition reimbursement program for employees, so I took full advantage of that. Worked full time, went to school at night, they paid for tuition and 1/2 of my books in exchange for C or better grades and a 3 year contract commitment. Got my AA and almost done with my BA (from a private Catholic school no less) when I was promoted to a series of 3 positions now that have too much travel to attend classes after work.

The stance that if the govt didn't fund higher education only the rich could go is simply a complete falsehood. If you want to go, and aren't expecting to just go to school, you can. It's just that everyone seems to think that going to college is an occupation that precludes working while doing so. It's not.

Then there's all of my buddies that went to the military first, and earned their education through the GI bill, I have no problem with tax $$ going to pay for college for them, they've earned it. There's options, but they take work, and people seem to have forgotten that.

[cstone]

He went to Harvard.

He dropped out. He never graduated. He never went back. He didn't need to.

School is good for some things. Education can take place where ever there is a willing student who works hard and people who can provide knowledge.