Obamacare compared to public education

[Mista Bukit]

If Obama gets his government takeover of the heath care system it might look like the way the government runs the public education system:
The whole system will be managed by an incestuous bureaucracy will be only concerned about safeguarding and expanding its power base. Also this bureaucracy will make be making decisions over an individuals case through the prism of what they believe to be the greater good (their own welfare being number 1) as opposed to what is best for the individual.
If it fails it will alway be because we didn't spend enogh money on the program, not that the program itself is flawed.
The more affluent neighborhoods will have the better quality service – just like the education system and the poorer areas will be resentful because they are not getting their “fair share”
Higher service will be doled out to whoever the current elite is or who is in political favor- as now with our higher education.

[Jumpstart]

Dear Friends,

Some of the faces in Washington may have changed but the tactics are as duplicitous as ever. The Democratic leaders are up to no good---they are deliberately misleading America about their intent to cover illegal immigrants under their health care plan. That's right, while it's been widely reported that illegals are not being covered-don't believe a word of it.

We need to put a little light of day on this matter---and no one can do that better than you. I'll give you the facts-then you need to call, write, email, or just show up in their district offices and let your congressman know that you know and you are not standing for it.

Obama and the Democrats know their socialized health care scheme is a tough sell for the American people. And if they give our taxpayer funded health care to illegal aliens, they know they will pay dearly at the ballot box. A recent Rasmussen poll stated that 80% of Americans are against government providing health care to illegals.

With this in mind, Senate Finance Chair Max Baucus said, "We're not going to cover undocumented aliens, undocumented workers. That's too politically explosive."

Translation: he wants it, but the American people won't stand for it.

Even Barack Obama said this week that he was against giving national health care to illegal aliens with one important exception, the usual left wing canard. He wants it for the children. He wants taxpayers to pay for the health care of all illegal alien minors-sounds like a fantastic reason for foreigners to travel to the US illegally-especially if they have a really sick or needy child.

But Obama didn't stop there-and risk disappointing La Raza and the other open border fanatics who support him. He added that he would solve the problem of uninsured illegals by creating "a situation where we're dealing with illegal immigration, so that we don't have illegal immigrants... And I want a comprehensive immigration plan that creates a pathway to achieve that." In other words we will first give them amnesty, and then health care!

But even this is a lie. Illegal aliens will be able to get Obama care. The bill doesn't say straight out "we're giving health care to illegals," but there is absolutely nothing in the bill that requires screening to ensure that illegal aliens don't abuse the system. This past week Congressman Dean Heller introduced an Amendment to the Ways and Means Committee that would have required that the federal government to verify the legal status of applicants for the government health care plan or credits for private health insurance. Every single Democrat on the Committee voted against this common sense Amendment!

Let's show Baucus just how "politically explosive" giving free health care to lawbreakers is. Call up your representative and tell them to vote against Obama Care. Tell them that if they vote for the bill, they are voting to give billions of dollars of your tax dollars to illegal aliens, and that you will hold them responsible come election time.

This fight is raging right now. Some conservative Democrats are trying to stop this insanity. But they need your help. I'll be writing a column about the fraud of Obama care and bringing it up on television but the best way to stop it is the same way we stopped the treasonous amnesty bill-with your calls.

Thanks for all you do to keep Washington from taking this country right over the edge. If we can hold on for another fifteen months we can throw some of these bums out and send to Congress Americans who will fight for us! Please call today, and again on Monday and Tuesday!

[GunTroll]

Both excellent points from above posters! This whole thing makes me want to !

[MrPrena]

Not too optimistic about the Health care.
It's gonna take more than a popular lib president to change that.
It's gonna take more than a decade to fix it.

Yes, we do need a new something! It is ridiculus right now. I just can't say we are going the right direction or a wrong direction at this time.

My mom recently had 3 surgeries from different country for 12% of the cost here.
Her MD was from Johns Hopkins and practiced in US. So, he knew that it would cost over $30k here.

A+ treatment and state of the art facilities.

Those clowns who says they have inferior treatment and equipments are total BOGUS. I saw it with my own eyes. Those hospitals have state of the art equipment from GE, Siemens and etc. Well damn educated MDs and Nurses.

Not fair at all. Equipments are mainly from here. Pharmaceutical stuffs are mainly from here. MDs are mainly educated from here.

It ain't nothing new. Most of big city newspapers are advertising about "medical vacation packages"

[Jer]

If anyone wants to see how a government run health care system would work take a look at VA care. That's government run health care and have you heard anything good about that? My father-in-law has to drive two states away because of what branch he was in or where he was based out of or some such shit and there's a VA hospital about 30min away. Yea government!

[Pancho Villa]

I think that arguments based on the fact that govt run healthcare is generally of lower quality, higher cost, etc., are interesting to number-chasers but ultimately fruitless. It was the same arguments that ended up with social security, medicare, medicaid, rx drug benefit, welfare, etc., passed.

Generally people don't care what is efficient or not, they care about what is right.

I am against Obamacare because, as a man with a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of my own happiness, I do not concede that is my moral duty to support others in need of medicare care. I do not agree that their need constitutes a claim on my paycheck, which by the way I work my ass off for. And I will fight the idea that my hard work is a means that some shmuck in DC can set the ends for as long as there is free speech in the US.

A "right" to any product or service - food, shelter or healthcare - just means the right of some men (who do not have the product or service) to the money of others. It means that some men are obligated - against their will - to work so that some stranger can have this "right." What is that, but slavery? The fact is, no one has a "right" to healthcare - at any price - because no one has a right to either force another man to pay for his medical bills or force a doctor to give him treatment.

As a practical aside, the medical industry is one of the most heavily regulated ones in the country. Govt regulations on insurance, malpractice law, a laundry list of laws that force hospitals to take in people who they know will never pay, all result in only one thing: higher costs for everyone. It is one of the great ironies of modern history that, as government intervenes in things "for the greater good," it causes systemic problems in whatever industry it does so. These problems are blamed, not on the government, but on whatever free enterprise is left in the system and used as an excuse to expand government power.

[hobowh]

Both excellent points from above posters! This whole thing makes me want to !

+1
You want to see the effects of gov run health care look at England. My grandmother had her hip replaced there. Afterwards she moved back to the US, and had to lay in a bed for 6 months while the bone grew back enough to have it repaced again properly.

[jake]

+1
You want to see the effects of gov run health care look at England. My grandmother had her hip replaced there. Afterwards she moved back to the US, and had to lay in a bed for 6 months while the bone grew back enough to have it repaced again properly.

The plural of anecdote is not data... but... I'm English, and lived in England for 29 years, before I married an American and moved here six years ago. A couple of years ago my wife had to have emergency surgery and received exactly the same level of care that she would have received had we decided to live in the UK. The only differences: 1) she was initially sent home from the ER because it was "Christmas Eve so no one will be around to see you until the New Year" and 2) she paid handsomely for the treatment she received.

My grandmother is 94 years old, has cancer, diabetes and two artifcial hips. If you listen to some of the opinions about the healthcare system in the UK from Americans, you would assume that if there's ever any need for her to visit a hospital, bureaucrats would step in and decide it's not worth paying for her treatment. On the contrary, she receives amazing care, free of charge, all for less in terms of a percentage of GDP than we spend here in the United States.

[MrPrena]

Our health care is messed up. That is a fact.

I have over 15 cases that I saw in the past 10 years.

Here is another one.
One of my buddie was a foreign exchange student. He broke his arm here. He bought an supplimentary insurance that covers out of country.
It only costs him the lously low $15 copay to cover everything from his supplimental insurance!

Guess who was his carrier was.... Surprisingly it was a US Insurance company called AIG.
He pays like real ridiculus small premium for a better coverage from our own US company insurance carrier at a foreign country!
Why does our own health care companies, pharmaceutical companies , and biotech companies RIP OFF fella US citizens??


Some clowns says that "US has state of the art biotech drugs relative to other countries"
Okay..... here are some argument(s).
1. Even if we do, not all citizen can afford $1100/day infusion that does NOT cover by most of insurance.
2. Most of high dollar biotech products are available in most of other countries as well. IF you think it is available only in US, you are snoring too much crack.
3. If you think medical sector is in near "perfect competition" model, you're dreaming.

[Pancho Villa]

This is where the liberal dominance of the intellectuals and schools comes in in their favor.

"Our" healthcare system?

Do you mean the doctors, pharma companies, etc., only operate and make profits because "we" think thats the best way to do it? In other words, that doctors, pharma companies, insurance companies, etc., are only free because "we" have decided that "we" will let them be free?

I caution everyone here from adopting the language and thought process of collectivism. I know its difficult since we've all been raised with it - but it matters and if you concede that its "our" healthcare "system," then the liberals will win on the battlefield of ideas - period.

Freedom is not a privledge that the mob (or God) bestows. It is man's "natural right" - the things he needs by nature in order to flourish as a human being*. So it is not "our" healthcare system. The fact that people consider it "our" healthcare system is what has caused prices to spike so hard in the first place.

For example, ERs cannot turn away people, period. They have to take every shmuck that walks in, regardless of whether or not they can pay. Why? The law.

In Colorado, no insurance company can "discriminate" anymore when they offer health insurance to corporations. What does that mean? They have to charge you the same amount they charge the heavy duty construction company that puts in a few hundred work-related injury claims a year.

First I would like to emphasize, that healthcare is not a 'right.' As I said, no one has the right to force someone else to pay for or provide a service.

Second, I would like to say that - contrary to popular misconception - our healthcare system is nowhere near being a free market system. Every last bit of the healthcare system - from doctors, to hospitals, to insurance companies - are hamstrung by dozens, if not hundreds, of regulations on what they can and cannot do. If you look closely, you will find that all our healthcare system problems are, at their core, caused by these interventions.

*If you are going to say that God designed man so that he needs liberty to flourish, then I can definitely live with that. What I am railing against in that sentence is the idea that "liberty" is some magic coating of invisible paint God puts on all men's souls before sending 'em down to earth.