Thoughts on the Pres banning Military Equip For Cops

[thvigil11]

No Cop Bashing Here!

Quoted from the article.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/201...4a877cf29.html


In previewing the president's trip, the White House said that effective immediately, the federal government will no longer fund or provide armored vehicles that run on a tracked system instead of wheels, weaponized aircraft
or vehicles, firearms or ammunition of .50-caliber or higher, grenade launchers, bayonets or camouflage uniforms. The federal government also is exploring ways to recall prohibited equipment already distributed. In addition, a longer list of equipment the federal government provides will come under tighter control, including wheeled armored vehicles like Humvees, manned aircraft, drones, specialized firearms, explosives, battering rams and riot batons, helmets and shields. Starting in October, police will have to get approval from their city council, mayor or some other local governing body to obtain it, provide a persuasive explanation of why it is needed and have more training and data collection on the use of the equipment."

So no more "tracked" vehicles (MRAPS are still cool though, I know of a few M113's but most everyone in this state run Bearcats)

No more weaponized aircraft (damn, was looking forward to that used A-10. Did weaponized aircraft even happen? I remember the weaponized Roomba!)

No more .50 cal or higher firearms or ammo, (what, no Carl Gustavs! I'm sure Ronnie Barret will sell his stuff as long as you use other funds)

Grenade launchers (guys, we'll have to buy our own Milkors and MK19's)

Bayonets (Really, just really. Why the frack is it always about bayonets. We need to ban bayonet mounts for assault weapons because bayonettings are such a problem. This from the same ass who said "You mention the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets," )

Camouflage uniforms (OD green and black are still cool, or cops do what they already do, Buy their camo from places like Neve's)

"Starting in October, police will have to get approval from their city council, mayor or some other local governing body to obtain it, provide a persuasive explanation of why it is needed and have more training and data collection on the use of the equipment." (what dept does not already have some sort of oversight on their spending, every government I know of has someone in charge of approving, reviewing and tracking all PO's)

Seems to me like this is all more lip service than anything else. While I agree that the above items are not needed for police, I don't believe they are what is currently the problem. I see the problem as more of a tactics and training issue. Albuquerque just had another issue with a state cop kicking a dead guy in the ass after they hit his corpse with 3 bean bag rounds. "yeah, he's dead dude. It's pretty hard to play possum after three less than lethals" http://krqe.com/2015/05/18/video-rai...cts-dead-body/

Again, I don't want to bash our police. We have trained them to a standard and now have come to criticize them for what they have learned. Besides the fact that the media is ignoring who it was that began the vast training and arming of the swat teams back in the 90's. Remember how the politicians cried of how our police were outgunned, criminals were running rampant with their cop killer bullets, porcelain glocks, shoulder things that goes up, and drive by bayonettings. Once again shitty legislation has led to shitty outcomes, so let's just pass some equally shitty legislation, without getting rid of the previous crap and I'm sure there will be no unintended outcomes this time.

Sorry for the rant. Just tired today I guess. My LE bros and sisters out there. Keep your heads on a swivel and thanks for what you do.

BAN POLITICIANS (fer the childrens)

[TFOGGER]

Straight up political posturing. This is a very transparent attempt by the administration to attempt to garner support by appearing to side with the "oppressed". I could have seen this coming, based on the tenor of the news over the last year.

[Monky]

While I have yet to see a need for a civilian agency to have an MRAP, unless those in charge are playing as much Grand Theft Auto as the rest of the population.. RPGs don't seem to be prevalent in the US. I get it, in a way.. the equipment is there, so why not get it, even though we will never actually have 'need' for it.. 'what if'.. we all plan for the what if.

As a show of force, they're impressive. Could I, were I so inclined to be a criminal, put a hole in one. Yep sure could.. I don't know of anyone who has that capability that would though. Sure there are nutjobs out there with a .50, just like me.. but I don't recall ever seeing anything done with one... I mean except in movies. Movies love the .50..

[MarkCO]

I agree with TFOGGER. Nothing Obummer does is in the best interest of America, except as a byproduct at best. At the same time, many conservatives have felt uneasy about the militarization of the civilian police forces. The USA is unique (Constitutionally) in that our military is not to act against its own citizens. That line has been blurred by the types of conflicts and decisions from the White House. Overall, I see it as a good thing, even if for the wrong reason.

[davsel]

They included "helmets and shields." Why would you ban defensive equipment?

Didn't the arming up start after the LA bank robbery? Understandably to an extent.

As TFOGGER stated, seems the pres is just doing some community organizing and supporting. "If I had a community..."

[Hound]

I think the OP could not have said it better. The pendulum has swung from cops running into a gun store to deal with the armored LA nuts to training (as a reaction to 911) that swung the pendulum to the other side. The training and procedures need to be looked at again. The below Also struck me as odd. Is this not the case with most PD's?

what dept does not already have some sort of oversight on their spending, every government I know of has someone in charge of approving, reviewing and tracking all PO's

[68Charger]

I'll go ahead and say this is NOT a BAN... it is a pulling of Federal funding for these items. The departments can still get this stuff, just not Federally funded.

Any time Gov't wants to spend less, I'm good with that.

ETA: I am also 100% sure that TFOGGER is right, and the admin is NOT doing this to spend less (they have demonstrated exactly the opposite most of the time), this is pure posturing.

[thvigil11]

I'll go ahead and say this is NOT a BAN... it is a pulling of Federal funding for these items. The departments can still get this stuff, just not Federally funded.

Any time Gov't wants to spend less, I'm good with that.

Exactly... It's all smoke and mirrors without any real attempt at addressing the problem. In fact its even less than effective since the restrictions are placed on items that aren't even an issue. (Bayonets and grenade launchers)

[ray1970]

It's a different world we live in these days. Often local law enforcement are the first responders to terrorist type acts. I say let them have the tools to deal with those types of extreme situations. As long as they have strict protocols as to when and how that equipment is deployed I don't have an issue with them owning it. By them not being able to get that stuff at a deep discount through surplus supplies it just means higher taxes for me in the long run when they have to start buying it through other sources.

[sellersm]

This seems to play right along with what I'd heard a few years ago: the Feds were handing out the goodies, like candy, and then they were going to pull the plug on the funding. This leaves the locals with a big $$$ dilemma on their hands... Can they afford the maintenance? Can they afford further procurement of such items? Can they afford the training with said equipment? Ammo? Etc...

As the OP said, it's all a game, nothing more.

From what I've heard, also, the timing of this announcement is interesting as the local LE community will be the "roadblocks/traffic enforcement" (no one in/no one out) for the upcoming Jade Helm exercises. But who knows what will really happen?