if you read the post right above yours, you will see that is exactly what is being discussed.Originally Posted by Jacket
Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums
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if you read the post right above yours, you will see that is exactly what is being discussed.
I'm confused isn't this thread titled Arsenal AK's, so why all the talk of mismatched junk AK's? Why do people talk about the American made AR with such reverence, yet when someone says they have some American made parts in their AK, it's junk.
FYI, it takes 5.5 hours of machining just to produce a Bulgarian milled receiver. Then you add things like hammer forged chrome lined barrels and forged bolts, all made in the same factory on the same tooling that produces military rifles and that's not cheap to produce. I agree anybody spending top dollar on a mismatched AK would be making a bad investment.
As an analogy you keep talking about your old rat rod you sold in high school and complaining about why Chip Foose now wants $60K for a custom hot rod to replace it. Supply and demand drives the free market, still the best system around. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy Arsenal AK's, but they sell. Maybe there are a lot of stupid people and you are the smart one or maybe they're worth it. I say if you ever get a chance handle and shoot a top quality AK, maybe you'll change your mind on there value.
Life's hard when you're stupid
When the government came to take our guns, they knocked on the door. After our guns were gone, they never bothered knocking again - Holocaust Survivor
Because a lot of those American made AK parts are from companies like Tapco.
Probably because Arsonal buys crates of production parts from here and there to build a gun. I am not saying they are junk. I love AKs I just think the quality and craftsmanship is not on par with other guns in the price range.
Obviouslyyou are a fan of Arsonal, sorry to offend your brand. I have nothing against them I just don't see 1k+ in an AK. just my 2cents.
-Back to the subject a hand I would suspect the "shortage" could be a marketing ploy to keep prices high on a gun that should be much lower.
Last edited by Jacket; 05-12-2015 at 06:15.
Huh? Arsenal USA doesn't buy crates of parts and build guns like Century. Minus a few rare exceptions, like the old SA M7s, they are simply an importer and do the required 922R compliance mods on what they import. The rifles are new production built by the host country (Bulgaria and Russia). Are they overpriced? Probably but then again I doubt Century could bring something like a SLR107, with the proper folding stock and CHF barrel, to market for much less than what Arsenal is asking. Some people value an AK built in combloc countries, others could care less. To each their own.
As for this shortage, I suspect it's more marketing than fact. They have the most amazing luck of finding unknown warehouse stashes when the price point gets high enough.
Last edited by mutt; 05-12-2015 at 12:19.
I don't have any more of an affection for Arsenal than other gun in my collection. If anyone starts berating other guns that they know nothing about I will try to set the record straight there as well. I refuse to set back and listen to the uninformed throw jabs at something they clearly know nothing about (Arsenal quality). I'm not here to defend their high price, but it cost money to produce a quality rifle, and Arsenal is. I have no knowledge of them falsely inflating prices, maybe they do maybe they don't. I just don't understand why some people persist on throwing uninformed false blanket statements out about all AK quality, it goes nowhere.
I understand AK perception is likely driven by the fact that there is such a broad spectrum of quality in AK parts. The perceived quality of guns built in the US from foreign parts and the 922r compliance requirements all result in some AK's being pieced together "junk". I imagine that these are the guns you are most familiar with that you're looking to buy again. People seem to compare AR's to AK's, typically concluding that AR's are superior. Generally speaking AR's should be built to tighter tolerances just from the fact that we have mil-spec to drive the quality and fit of parts. If you spend a little time doing some research you will find a few AK's also are built to fairly tight tolerances. I have both AK's and AR's and don't really lean one way or another. The AR will beat the AK in long range accuracy, the AK excels in durability. I don't believe I will ever be in a situation where I would have one and wish I had the other, barring an ammo issue.
The virtues of the AR have been well established on this and many other sites. There seems to be many not familiar with Arsenal, my attempt here is to extol the virtues of Arsenal AK's having all of their key components made and assembled in a top rated military production facility that's been doing it since 1958. It is amusing that any time the Arsenal name comes up in a thread at some point the price and general overall quality of AK's eventually becomes the hot topic. But really "Arsonal buys crates of production parts from here and there to build a gun", please do some research before making such an uninformed statement. If you really feel the need to berate an AK please take out your angst on more deserving AK's like Pioneer or I.O. unless those are the ones you are looking to buy then by all means continue to not comprehend anything I've said and go ahead and get one.
Life's hard when you're stupid
When the government came to take our guns, they knocked on the door. After our guns were gone, they never bothered knocking again - Holocaust Survivor
I am not bashing the AK.. Seriously. I love the AK-47 and have owned an AK (numerous kinds,) most of my adult life. It is an awesome gun, it is also a military gun that is designed to be produced cheaply and easily= One of the main qualities of the AK. It is not a china cabinet curio, precision marksman rifle, handcrafted from Russias fined gun shop, ... they are imported AK parts put together in Las Vegas. Much better then a Century AK-47.. but sill a AK-47.
All I am saying is I do not see $1000.+ in an AK. Gold plate it, milled receiver, put the picture of the virgin Mary on it. I give you $500. Show me an AK that will group past 100yds with a warm barrel and maybe I would pay more but that is not what an AK is. It is a reliable cheap to build military rifle it does what it is designed for- Easy to use, cheap to build, easy to manufacture, takes neglect and abuse and still is a reliable killing machine.
Thank you for your "teachings" but it seems more like fan boy ramblings/regurgitated marketing. Not to be a jerk but I haven't seem much interesting or knowledge AK info in your posts on this thread.
Last edited by Jacket; 05-13-2015 at 09:24.
It takes them 5 hrs? WTF are they doing? Must be using old 3 axis HAAS's or something with four, or five extra fixture steps just for fun, and then running the machine at 80%.... Or... they're made of titanium? lol
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Yep. And at Eastern European labor rates of about $5 per hour that's almost $30 for labor right there. No wonder they're so expensive.
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Wow...this thread got weird.
Far out.
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