Velocity vs frag on steel question

[Mr Spooky]

Anyone know if there is a difference in the amount or distance of frag after hitting steel plates with different velocity bullets? Would a 147gr 9mm produce less frag and would the frag travel less distance vs 115gr ? Would the frag be traveling slower since the initial velocity is slower. Or since there is more metal jacket on the heavier 124 and 147gr it's going to produce even more fragments?

[Danimal]

Deleted

[Bmac]

How's the new place?

Is that a 3% lama!!?

[Mr Spooky]

Sure is. Llamas make badass guards. They are mean! Its a custom patch I had made up for a little "shooting survival club group thingy"

[Great-Kazoo]

Sure is. Llamas make badass guards. They are mean! Its a custom patch I had made up.

They also have excellent eye sight.

[C Ward]

Sprag coming back from steel is a function of how its set up , quality and condition , and blind luck . Everybody I've shot with has been hit with pistol sprag .

Set the plates up with some give so they move when shot , angle them to send the bullets in to the ground , and get rid of them when they become cratered . On pistol steel no closer than 10 yards and 150 for rifle is a good rule of thumb . You can get away with mild steel with pistol and shot in a shotgun but rifle and slugs use AR500 .

If you shoot steel long enough with pistol you will catch some sprag , I've got hit with 9 , 40 , 44 , and 45's and know people that have caught rifle and pistol sprag . The bullet doesn't always behave predictably wear your glasses .

[Not_A_Llama]

Faster produces more and faster frag. But the pieces are smaller. Figure your tradeoff as 1/2mv^2, and counterbalance against momentum being mv.

Check out the Kurzzeit videos.

I can definitively suggest that you always want eyepro when shooting steel, and that I haven't caught any interesting frag shooting pistol against AR550 to about 4m, and M193 and 7N6 to about 5m. Closer than that gets scary. Shotgun slugs form cool little mostly-intact Hershey Kisses that come to rest about a foot in front of the target.

[MarkCO]

Mostly correct answers. The slower the velocity and the "tougher" the bullet, the higher the chance of fragments coming back towards the shooter...all else being equal. Hard, flat steel with angle and or give is best as Chuck said.

However, you are safer shooting a .223 at steel from 10 yards than a pistol, which is safer than a slug. The reason we have rifle steel at 100 yards and beyond and limit the velocity it purely to make the steel last longer.

So, a 147 going 900 fps is more likely to have a fragment come back towards a shooter than a 115 going 1150...again all else equal.

[C Ward]

Been shooting steel targets for 20 years now and there is no way in hell I'm shooting center fire rifle closer than 100 yards without frangible ammo . Just because 99 out of 100 you get away with it doesn't mean that 1 time won't bite you in the ass , especially with the Russian 5.45 with bimetal jackets .

I'll introduce you to the guy I now that caught a piece of 30-30 from 50ish yards the went to the ER to get his arm sewed up . It's just not worth it shooting a rifle at steel that close , besides the damage being done to the targets by what amount to muzzle velocity impacts .

[MarkCO]

Been shooting steel targets for 20 years now and there is no way in hell I'm shooting center fire rifle closer than 100 yards without frangible ammo . Just because 99 out of 100 you get away with it doesn't mean that 1 time won't bite you in the ass , especially with the Russian 5.45 with bimetal jackets .

I'll introduce you to the guy I now that caught a piece of 30-30 from 50ish yards the went to the ER to get his arm sewed up . It's just not worth it shooting a rifle at steel that close , besides the damage being done to the targets by what amount to muzzle velocity impacts .

I did not say a .30-30 Chuck, I said a .223. And it has been tested and proven many times. I have been shooting steel, and testing steel bullet interaction professionally, for 20 years, including government and private contracts. Yes, it will damage the targets. Point is that people tend to think backwards when it comes to understanding steel bullet interaction w.r.t. mass and velocity. A slower projectile poses a greater risk of a bullet coming back along the path it took to the target than a faster one in most conditions.