Another Police Shooting on Video

[izzy]

Even if he pulled out a knife, at that distance I don't see how it's reasonable to shoot the guy.

[Irving]

Even if he pulled out a knife, at that distance I don't see how it's reasonable to shoot the guy.

Please research the 21-foot rule.

[izzy]

Please research the 21-foot rule.

I stand corrected.

[Irving]

I think Cold Steel has some YouTube videos based on that as well. They don't say that's what they are doing, but you can see measurements for 21' on the floor while a guy with a sword charges a guy with a gun. LOL.

[kidicarus13]

I stand corrected.

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...-valid-Part-1/

"Unfortunately, some officers and apparently some trainers as well have 'streamlined' the 21-Foot Rule in a way that gravely distorts its meaning and exposes them to highly undesirable legal consequences," Lewinski says. Namely, they have come to believe that the Rule means that a subject brandishing an edged weapon when positioned at any distance less than 21 feet from an officer can justifiably be shot.

For example, an article on the 21-Foot Rule in a highly respected LE magazine states in its opening sentence that "a suspect armed with an edged weapon and within twenty-one feet of a police officer presents a deadly threat." The "common knowledge" that "deadly force against him is justified" has long been "accepted in police and court circles," the article continues.

Statements like that, Lewinski says, "have led officers to believe that no matter what position they're in, even with their gun on target and their finger on the trigger, they are in extreme danger at 21 feet. They believe they don't have a chance of surviving unless they preempt the suspect by shooting.

"However widespread that contaminated interpretation may be, it is NOT accurate. A suspect with a knife within 21 feet of an officer is POTENTIALLY a deadly threat. He does warrant getting your gun out and ready. But he cannot be considered an actual threat justifying deadly force until he takes the first overt action in furtherance of intention--like starting to rush or lunge toward the officer with intent to do harm. Even then there may be factors besides distance that influence a force decision.

"So long as a subject is stationary or moving around but not advancing or giving any indication he's about to charge, it clearly is not legally justified to use lethal force against him. Officers who do shoot in those circumstances may find themselves subject to disciplinary action, civil suits or even criminal charges."
Lewinski believes the misconception of the 21-Foot Rule has become so common that some academies and in-service training programs now are reluctant to include the Rule as part of their edged-weapon defense instruction for fear of non-righteous shootings resulting.

"When you talk about the 21-Foot Rule, you have to understand what it really means when fully articulated correctly in order to judge its value as a law enforcement concept," Lewinski says. "And it does not mean 'less than 21 feet automatically equals shoot.'"

[rbeau30]

Please research the 21-foot rule.

Every time I tell a panhandler to walks up to me to step back, it totally derails their schpiel.

21 foot rule makes total sense to me. And yeah we can't see from the perspective if the video. We also cannot HEAR what is going on either. The guy may have well been actively and verbally threatening the officers or someone else, IE: "Let me get at the B!7$#, i'm going to kill her with this knife!" That right there could give the officers justification.

Let the Justice system sort it out.

[Irving]

Kid, I agree. In the video, it even looks like at least one officer has a riot shield.

[Kraven251]

Good shoot, bad shoot, if you are in a position where law enforcement has guns drawn on you, it is still generally best to comply with the knowledge that you will be around to voice your side of the situation.

As for the 21 foot rule, you don't know what someone is going to do. The fact they have already decided to bring a knife to a gun fight indicates they are not thinking rationally, and are at best unpredictable.

from the same article above:

Bottom line: Within a 21-foot perimeter, most officers dealing with most edged-weapon suspects are at a decided - perhaps fatal - disadvantage if the suspect launches a sudden charge intent on harming them. "Certainly it is not safe to have your gun in your holster at this distance," Lewinski says, and firing in hopes of stopping an activated attack within this range may well be justified.

[colorider]

Many times I have told a bum, panhandler, punk ass kid, vagrant, tweaker to step the fuck back away from me.

[StagLefty]

A tape measure is not part of my EDC gear.