Obama Townhall Saturday in Grand Junction, Colo

[hobowh]

Just to clarify a couple of things... are you implying that the media is spinning what is going on at these meetings to make it sound like people are being violent and aggressive? Because I have been watching some of the footage and people ARE being violent and aggressive at these meetings.


And yet health care in the UK still manages to be ranked higher than that here. I mean I am aware, thanks to that Investor's Business Daily editorial, that if Stephen Hawking was born in the UK he wouldn't have survived because the bureaucracy would have deemed his life not worth prolonging, but I am also aware that a lot of the unfavourable comparisons that are floating around are based on out of date data.

My grandmother had her hip replaced in the UK same docor that did the queens. When she got back here she had to lay in a hospital bed for 4 months while the bone healed enough to have a new replacement done. The hospital that it was done at was a stables, and arena before ww2. So the ratings may be a little inflated.

[jake]

My grandmother had her hip replaced in the UK same docor that did the queens. When she got back here she had to lay in a hospital bed for 4 months while the bone healed enough to have a new replacement done. The hospital that it was done at was a stables, and arena before ww2. So the ratings may be a little inflated.

Yes, you said that in another thread, and in the same thread I replied that about three years ago I took my wife to the ER in Florida in need of emergency surgery and she was sent home because "it's Christmas so no one will be available to see you." When she was finally seen, after Christmas at another hopsital, the doctor was aghast at this decision as it could have cost her life. So my anecdote cancels out your anecdote and they both prove nothing.

My grandmother has had both of her hips replaced with no post surgical complications at all. It sounds like your grandmother was unfortunately unlucky and I hope that she is doing better now, but I don't know if it can really be blamed on the health service in the UK.

As for the history of the hospital she was treated at, I've no doubt that was true. A hospital in my home town was formerly a workhouse pre World War One (it's no longer there, but has finally been replaced by a modern building). Britain is a smaller country that the United States so especially in urban areas we don't always have the space to build modern buildings. However inside those buildings, the equipment is as up to date as anything I would expect to find here.

A couple of facts (facts) from 2006. Based on a per capita yearly spend of $6700 in the US and $2800 in the UK, the UK offers almost the same number of doctors per 10,000 people, substantially more nurses per 10,000 people, more hospital beds per 10,000 people and a higher life expectancy at birth. Not bad for a system that is apparently falling apart.

[hobowh]

I'd say I've lived all over Europe, and the US. I'll take my chances with our current healthcare system rather than use theirs. As far as the cost goes you left out the part where they pay higher taxes to make up the difference.

[hobowh]

Before It goes any farther though we should agree to disagree on this point. I am not trying to change anyones view. Mine is simply if I wnted socialized medicine I would move to a socialist country, or in Englands case a "parliamentary monarchy".

[PsyKo]

example of socialized medicine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

ill pass.

[jake]

Before It goes any farther though we should agree to disagree on this point. I am not trying to change anyones view. Mine is simply if I wnted socialized medicine I would move to a socialist country, or in Englands case a "parliamentary monarchy".

I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind, and I'm sure that most people who read this will remain utterly convinced that the NHS is a horrendous system which rations healthcare and routinely leaves those it deems 'worthless' to die, but for most Britons the NHS is an enormous source of pride and I would imagine almost everyone who was born in the UK has at least one reason to be enormously grateful to it. So, just as you would feel compelled to step in if a group of people with very little experience of it were pontificating on the pros and cons of the Second Amendment, naturally I get defensive about the lies and disinformation I am exposed to daily as healthcare reform in this country is debated. Especially when the reforms that are being proposed here would lead to a system that's nothing like the NHS.

And fyi, Britain is not a socialist country, not is it a "parliamentary monarchy." It's a parliamentary democracy. The queen is a titular figurehead with no real power who on balance costs the country nothing.

And on the subject of taxation, well, I'm not tax expert, but a brief look at tax rates over here (I leave that to our accountant and just let my wife sign the check at tax time ) suggests that taxation is actually a little bit higher here than there. Of course it's hard to compare as the UK only has three tax brackets and not six, and then there's no state income tax over there, nor sales tax, and I believe that wages are comparatively higher there too, but on the whole, I don't really think that paying slightly higher taxes for healthcare of a comparable quality (sorry, but it is) that is available to EVERYONE without any cost is such a bad deal. I guess that makes me a socialist.

[sniper7]

I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind, and I'm sure that most people who read this will remain utterly convinced that the NHS is a horrendous system which rations healthcare and routinely leaves those it deems 'worthless' to die, but for most Britons the NHS is an enormous source of pride and I would imagine almost everyone who was born in the UK has at least one reason to be enormously grateful to it. So, just as you would feel compelled to step in if a group of people with very little experience of it were pontificating on the pros and cons of the Second Amendment, naturally I get defensive about the lies and disinformation I am exposed to daily as healthcare reform in this country is debated. Especially when the reforms that are being proposed here would lead to a system that's nothing like the NHS.

And fyi, Britain is not a socialist country, not is it a "parliamentary monarchy." It's a parliamentary democracy. The queen is a titular figurehead with no real power who on balance costs the country nothing.

And on the subject of taxation, well, I'm not tax expert, but a brief look at tax rates over here (I leave that to our accountant and just let my wife sign the check at tax time ) suggests that taxation is actually a little bit higher here than there. Of course it's hard to compare as the UK only has three tax brackets and not six, and then there's no state income tax over there, nor sales tax, and I believe that wages are comparatively higher there too, but on the whole, I don't really think that paying slightly higher taxes for healthcare of a comparable quality (sorry, but it is) that is available to EVERYONE without any cost is such a bad deal. I guess that makes me a socialist.

THE UK does not allow firearms to be owned like we do here in the states. we have freedoms. they have allotments given to them. that is the difference and we fought to get away from them for a reason.

[MichiganMilitia]

THE UK does not allow firearms to be owned like we do here in the states. we have freedoms. they have allotments given to them. that is the difference and we fought to get away from them for a reason.

+1

[jake]

THE UK does not allow firearms to be owned like we do here in the states. we have freedoms. they have allotments given to them. that is the difference and we fought to get away from them for a reason.

I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make, but in case you weren't paying attention, I am actually FROM the UK. I didn't just live there for a while, I was born there, grew up there and only emigrated to the United States when I was 29, so if you would like to educate me about what freedoms we enjoy in the UK, and how we were all stripped of our firearms by a fascist government, go right ahead, and I will be more than happy to correct your misconceptions afterwards.

And yes, before anyone links to it, I have watched that video about gun laws in the UK, and yes, it's mostly nonsense and the huge 'pro-gun' rallies they show taking place in London are actually people protesting about the banning of hunting foxes with hounds and horses.

Just like comparing healthcare reform here with a completely socialized health service in the UK, comparing gun laws here and in the UK is like comparing apples and oranges.

[Jer]

I also see no reason to try to make every country the same - or every State for that matter. You like the UK's systems - great. Don't be too annoyed if we don't. People always have the option of moving to the UK if they truly love it's system. I see absolutely no reason for those people to try to make us UK #2. Diversity is a good thing.

There's a reason our ancestors left the UK to start their own country a few years back.