Edgewater armed robbery - what would you do?

[ZERO THEORY]

I couldn't say what I'd do until I was in that situation.
I do think some thug finding a concealed pistol on a good guy would escalate the situation. I doubt they would just take it and add it to their haul without trying to make an example of "the hero".

My thoughts exactly. A normal "stick 'em up!" robbery where they empty the registers and display cabinets? I wouldn't put people at risk. I'd even lay down on the floor at first. But once people started getting patted down, I'd have to have faith in the violence of action and proficiency in practice.

Four people robbing a pawn shop are 99.9% sure to not have any formal or informal dynamic OR static training. I would bet the house that anyone on this board could put down two of the criminals before the other two could process and react intelligibly. At that point, I think 2 vs 1 with regular, law-abiding, well-versed shooters vs street thugs is a fair shake.

The biggest obstacle is rolling over, drawing, and shooting from a laying position while trying to tally all four targets. You hope that they haven't fanned out around the store, otherwise your odds decrease exponentially.

[Irving]

I imagine a second or two after you fire the first round, they will run out the door while firing blindly behind them. Not a good scenario with a bunch of people proned out on the ground. It would be arm chair quarterbacked for years to come, but there isn't always time to think through 4 different "what-ifs" before action needs to happen.

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah...too many "what ifs?" and other variables with that number of customers and bad guys to give a real answer. This seems like the type of situation where you'd just have to make the judgment call as the scene played out.

I, too, believe under the right circumstances the 4v1 odds aren't that overwhelming for a well-trained shooter with the proper mindset. I'd say the odds are pretty good the good guy shooter would prevail. On the other hand, I also believe in bad luck, bad timing and unintended consequences...the Murphy's Law thing. You know...your first shot nails the bad guy right thru the heart and he stumbles as he tries to turn and run and, as his hand holding the gun hits the floor, with his finger on the trigger, he unintentionally fires a golden BB that hits you right between the running lights. Stranger things have happened.

[ZERO THEORY]

As much of a total knob as I think James Yaeger is as a person, I am a huge fan of his approach to training. In particular, the way he does full-contact scenario training with dummy/sim guns might be one of the most valuable and useful training implements I've ever seen. It's one thing to hit the range day after day and get good enough to shoot alphas on the move and make classifications in competition, and whatnot. But when your training involves what amounts to sparring, and you're in an environment that simulates the chaos of conflict, I think you gain a tremendous amount of ability to process and react accordingly to stress.

This is exactly the type of thing I'd like to practice in that environment. Also, video for those unfamiliar with Tactical Response (strong language in video; not for the kids)

[bryjcom]

I'd go all rambo on their asses and kill every one of them with a bullet between the eyes...

Or most likely I'd go with my gut instinct at the moment. If I could do something I would... If its too risky, well... I have a family to feed and take care of..

[Great-Kazoo]

Only four of them? I'd lay down cover fire as I headed towards the exit.

I'm not taking any chances. Sounds like the situation went down with nobody getting hurt this time. But who's to say they wouldn't order everyone face down on the floor and then walk along and put a bullet in the back of everyone's heads to eliminate any possible witnesses?

That would be a chance I'm not willing to take.

I'd rather take the odds of not taking a fatal shot from one of them as I bolted for the door. Even if I wasn't throwing shots their way as I exited.

Gonna have to disagree. See reply to next quote

My thoughts exactly. A normal "stick 'em up!" robbery where they empty the registers and display cabinets? I wouldn't put people at risk. I'd even lay down on the floor at first. But once people started getting patted down, I'd have to have faith in the violence of action and proficiency in practice.

Four people robbing a pawn shop are 99.9% sure to not have any formal or informal dynamic OR static training. I would bet the house that anyone on this board could put down two of the criminals before the other two could process and react intelligibly. At that point, I think 2 vs 1 with regular, law-abiding, well-versed shooters vs street thugs is a fair shake.

The biggest obstacle is rolling over, drawing, and shooting from a laying position while trying to tally all four targets. You hope that they haven't fanned out around the store, otherwise your odds decrease exponentially.

AND DISAGREE AGAIN. The BIGGEST OBSTACLE IS the rest of the people in the shop. Rounds start going off can you or Ray, or anyone, GUARANTEE beyond a doubt the other people being robbed are going to remain on the floor during this cluster fuck????

What about the owner, what happens if he starts pumping rounds in to the melee??

Tell you what, anyone survives they will be a witness in court saying you were the first to start shooting. The survivors will take everything in a civil suit. That's after your attorney get his $1-150K from you.

There's 4 fuckin potential shooters who already have guns drawn, shouting commands to get on the floor.
Miss overweight's already hyperventilating, limp wristed larry is about loose his bowels. And all you're thinking of is CAN I DROP THESE FUCKERS. Too many unknowns to have a clean resolution. This isn't the IDPA, 3 gun nationals. It's a robbery. Hope & pray you get out with only your ID and gun taken.
IF you have Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, the means to stop 4 Armed crooks go for it. If not , again, hope for the best

[bryjcom]

Keep in mind everyone...

The robbers waked in and robbed... And nobody got shot..

Sometimes its better to just let the insurance company pay out instead of dealing with being the winner of the "room temperature challenge". Again.. If you can do something.. GREAT.. 4 armed people making everyone lay down??? Yeah.. Your chances are less than 50/50..

Only time I would 100% do something is if they start shooting/executing.. You might as well go out shooting and hope for the best...

[ZERO THEORY]

AND DISAGREE AGAIN. The BIGGEST OBSTACLE IS the rest of the people in the shop.

You can take that as read, hence why I put that in the 3rd sentence of the first paragraph. Above all else, that is my first consideration.

And to be more clear, I take them patting people down as too volatile to wait and see. At that point, it's a sure bet that they'll find my weapon. The uncertainty of what they'll do afterwards is akin to a must-fight in my opinion.

I'm not suggesting that a citizen should try some hero stunt like that cop in Point Break. But much to my chagrin, life will put you in no-win scenarios sometimes. Action is sometimes necessary, if not optimal.

[cstone]

Did you ever play "What would I do if I won the lottery?"

This is the opposite of that game.

I've heard that no one wins in a dairy challenge.

Be safe.

[sniper7]

Guess I have more internet armchair confidence, 4 head shots with unheard of speed, and still 3 rounds left over if there were any in the getaway car.