Largest health insurer on Colorado exchange collapses

[Great-Kazoo]

It's ok, guys. Bernie Sanders said the solution to this problem is a single-payer healthcare plan.

We're saved!

Want to see how well a government run health care system works. Visit an Indian reservation.

[Circuits]

The key to victory is to make sure that no matter what is chosen, all paths lead to the desired outcome, at least eventually.

This preserves the illusion of choice, to pacify the unruly, while guaranteeing the triumph of the state.

[Skip]

That's been the plan all along. Anyone who thought Obama actually intended these exchanges to work has been fooling themselves. They want to destroy the private system and are happy to do it in stages.

Which [the public option] is equally (if not more) unsustainable.

Where do they get the value (used to be money) to pay for all of this? A VAT? Higher payroll/income taxes? Sure, tax "the rich" (except Dems) and watch unemployment spike. It's a zero-sum game with collectivists.

I think a lot of Bernie voters know this but mistakenly think they will get to pick winners and losers.

[Ridge]

That's been the plan all along. Anyone who thought Obama actually intended these exchanges to work has been fooling themselves. They want to destroy the private system and are happy to do it in stages.

I don't really see a problem with it, honestly. Treating healthcare as a for-profit enterprise will only hurt the consumer, which is everyone. From the surgery costs to the drug costs, there is profit that needs to be made at every level, which drives up the cost greatly.

Canada has basic medical care as single payer, with voluntary procedures (typically the most expensive procedures) not covered and subject to additional costs/coverage under private plans.

I'm going to say this now, because I know it'll be accused of me if I don't. Hillary is not to be trusted, and Bernie Sanders is living in a dream world and his plans are not fiscally feasible.

[Irving]

I don't really see a problem with it, honestly. Treating healthcare as a for-profit enterprise will only hurt the consumer, which is everyone. From the surgery costs to the drug costs, there is profit that needs to be made at every level, which drives up the cost greatly.

Canada has basic medical care as single payer, with voluntary procedures (typically the most expensive procedures) not covered and subject to additional costs/coverage under private plans.

I'm going to say this now, because I know it'll be accused of me if I don't. Hillary is not to be trusted, and Bernie Sanders is living in a dream world and his plans are not fiscally feasible.

I think that the much bigger problem is that with current health "insurance," people are completely insulated from the actual price of procedures and don't/can't price shop. Voluntary medical procedures like lasik and plastic surgery are for sure run on a for profit basis and the prices have been dropping while procedures have been getting better.

I wish I could remember the website, but there is a place where you can submit a procedure you need doing, and not only do they price shop for you, but actually pay you to go to the places that are less expensive. The payment comes directly from your provider, who is enthusiastic about people not blindly spending money that mostly falls to the provider.

[Gman]

I don't really see a problem with it, honestly. Treating healthcare as a for-profit enterprise will only hurt the consumer, which is everyone.

Hurt them how? Profit motive and market competition tends to increase quality and reduce prices. Just look at the technology market and imagine the pieces of crap you'd have and the high prices you'd pay if it weren't for competition.

When it's run by the government, it won't be cheap, won't be efficient, and the "customer" value will be weighed against the tax dollars they can bring in vs. how much their care will cost. Wife's godmother lived in Canada and had cancer. They just ran her around in circles and made her wait until she died. The same thing will happen here if we let it.

[Ridge]

I think that the much bigger problem is that with current health "insurance," people are completely insulated from the actual price of procedures and don't/can't price shop. Voluntary medical procedures like lasik and plastic surgery are for sure run on a for profit basis and the prices have been dropping while procedures have been getting better.

I wish I could remember the website, but there is a place where you can submit a procedure you need doing, and not only do they price shop for you, but actually pay you to go to the places that are less expensive. The payment comes directly from your provider, who is enthusiastic about people not blindly spending money that mostly falls to the provider.

That is an interesting concept. If you can find that site again, please share.

Hurt them how? Profit motive and market competition tends to increase quality and reduce prices. Just look at the technology market and imagine the pieces of crap you'd have and the high prices you'd pay if it weren't for competition.

When it's run by the government, it won't be cheap, won't be efficient, and the "customer" value will be weighed against the tax dollars they can bring in vs. how much their care will cost. Wife's godmother lived in Canada and had cancer. They just ran her around in circles and made her wait until she died. The same thing will happen here if we let it.

Insurance isn't like car shopping. Can you ever say that you went to your insurance and said "Well this other company will do the procedure and only cost me $xxxx" and have them price match? No, it doesn't happen. Because they all work together and fix prices, or lock you in to a network of practitioners so that you can't shop around.

[Irving]

That is an interesting concept. If you can find that site again, please share.

Heard about it on NPR. I'll look for it right now.

[Irving]

Here it is.

http://www.npr.org/2015/10/09/447098...cal-procedures

[Ridge]

Here it is.

http://www.npr.org/2015/10/09/447098...cal-procedures

Very interesting, thank you for finding that for me!