Women will be allowed to serve in combat

[Jamnanc]

I think it's because there is a fear that the dudes will go all teary eyed if something happens to a chick they care about, this will make them do stupid stuff. It's about the nature of a quality man which desires to protect women, whether it's God given nature or evolved behavior, a good man wants to protect women the same way a good woman wants to protect children. This will take a while for the older generation to get used to. I fear we've caused most of the next generation of men to act like women and blurred the gender lines so much that it won't matter much for future generations anyway.

[sniper7]

I'm torn. I like the idea of a badass woman eating a piece of bacon smoking some Muslim terrorist as the ultimate suck it to his little gay ass jihad.

on the other hand, women aren't signed up for the draft if that were to ever happen, and I honestly don't want them to. That's the last thing I'd want is my wife getting selected taken away from the kids and me stuck at home.
id like to know that physical standards are the same, same distances, same weight carried, same everything. If they can pass that, good for them. I know I couldn't.

as Jamnac stated, men have an inherent need to protect their women, when they are part of their elite team I'd imagine that need is emphasized to protect each other, men or women, but I'm curious the dynamic when a woman is thrown into the mix.

either way, it's above my decision making level and my opinion means squat on the subject so I'll just be supportive and hope they make a hot calendar of badass women with sweet weapons.

[Irving]

...badass women with sweet weapons.

What like a candy cane shiv?

[sniper7]

Sure, id like to see that!

[Ronin13]

To the Jessica Lynch thing, she wasn't knocked unconscious by a grenade. The controversy over that, and the general feeling of disdain among Army personnel toward her are due to the fact that she, admittedly, didn't fight. She said it, she didn't fight, she didn't fire a single round, and when things looked most grim, she "went down, praying to my knees." That's flat out cowardly. No room for that in any front-line position.

Now, back to the point. Not to sound snobby, or crude, but show of hands, in our modern time, who has been in the service, deployed, outside the wire? If the answer to all of the above is no, you can't really speak legitimately on the topic, as you really don't know what it's like. It's not like on an FOB or in Garrison. Out there, be it at a COP (Combat Out Post), or an LP/OP (Listening Post/Observation Post), for several days with a bunch of guys, bathing (usually with wet wipes), shitting, sleeping, pissing, and in close proximity, things could get ugly adding a female into the mix. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it will be difficult. Sexual harassment will happen at the very least, at worst, rape. Again, not saying it will happen every time, or even a lot of times, but just once and the whole thing will be called into question. Not to mention the very hard period of transition where a female will be viewed as an outsider and the idea of special accommodations needing to be made will create problems. Ever piss into a Gatorade bottle while on a convoy? No? Neither will she. These are issues I can foresee. If individual units can figure out these issues, I'm all for it. But I don't suspect it'll be easy. It's easy on a bigger base to have separate quarters and latrines for men and women, but on smaller outposts I can anticipate issues. Just my $.02.

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[TheGrey]

To the Jessica Lynch thing, she wasn't knocked unconscious by a grenade. The controversy over that, and the general feeling of disdain among Army personnel toward her are due to the fact that she, admittedly, didn't fight. She said it, she didn't fight, she didn't fire a single round, and when things looked most grim, she "went down, praying to my knees." That's flat out cowardly. No room for that in any front-line position.

Now, back to the point. Not to sound snobby, or crude, but show of hands, in our modern time, who has been in the service, deployed, outside the wire? If the answer to all of the above is no, you can't really speak legitimately on the topic, as you really don't know what it's like. It's not like on an FOB or in Garrison. Out there, be it at a COP (Combat Out Post), or an LP/OP (Listening Post/Observation Post), for several days with a bunch of guys, bathing (usually with wet wipes), shitting, sleeping, pissing, and in close proximity, things could get ugly adding a female into the mix. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it will be difficult. Sexual harassment will happen at the very least, at worst, rape. Again, not saying it will happen every time, or even a lot of times, but just once and the whole thing will be called into question. Not to mention the very hard period of transition where a female will be viewed as an outsider and the idea of special accommodations needing to be made will create problems. Ever piss into a Gatorade bottle while on a convoy? No? Neither will she. These are issues I can foresee. If individual units can figure out these issues, I'm all for it. But I don't suspect it'll be easy. It's easy on a bigger base to have separate quarters and latrines for men and women, but on smaller outposts I can anticipate issues. Just my $.02.

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I said nothing about Jessica Lynch fighting, and I am certain there are plenty of men that display "outright cowardice" to your line of thinking, when the rubber hits the road. I've also met a number of men that had nothing but contempt for the military, despite the fact that they were serving. Your points are not solely the purview of the female.

I also suspect that women that want to will be the ones to select combat and combat-support type of jobs. If they can't pass the physical requirements, they'll be washed out to join the other men and women that can't handle it. There are always jobs to be done for support, for painting, and for cleaning.

There will be quite an adjustment period, for both men and women. I would hope to hell that the instructors train female combatants to fend of potential rapists, and that if anyone in the squad attempts such a thing, they learn their lesson quickly. And brutally. Squads are meant to bond together while training, not victimized. On the other hand, women that expect to make selections as though at their very own smorgasbord should not be allowed to remain, either.

Similar arguments were made when the "don't-ask-don't-tell" was enacted; it worked out.

And yes, I have pissed in a Gatorade bottle. I have been the lone female in an all-male shop, and it was not easy. We were on foreign soil, there was sexual harassment from all sides, and because I was female in a male-dominated field, I had to work twice as hard to prove myself. But it was my choice; I persevered, and there came a time when I reached acceptance.

There were also times when I wished that I had a gun on me. I made do, and carried a knife instead.

The point is, of course it will be difficult. It should be. Fighting is a hard, dirty business. There is no room for exceptions. But just as women are expected to meet the standards that men must, the men need to accept that this is something that will be. There must be compromise.

[Lucky]

... (snip)...

and because I was female in a male-dominated field, I had to work twice as hard to prove myself. But it was my choice; I persevered, and there came a time when I reached acceptance.

...(snip)...

As a female, I appreciate that you clarified that it was your choice to work twice as hard. Some females do choose to work twice as hard simply to prove themselves, to their own self or to others- and all too often in attempt to prove themselves equal to males. Some females act as if their choice to work twice as hard is some sort of favor to the rest of us, when that is not the case. I am perfectly content not being in the military, and not working twice as hard simply to prove myself. I am much happier being good at certain things because I put the time and effort in to become better at them- for my own satisfaction and personal growth.

I don't think men and women are equal. Roles are changing over time, but I still believe we have different strengths and weaknesses, and that when we truly work as a team we can accomplish great things.

I'm sure the women who attempt to fight the front lines have a clear understanding that they will have to work twice as hard to prove themselves as a certain caliber of soldier, and with that comes added stress, health issues, and a more defensive demeanor overall. My hope would be that they are putting themselves out front because they really believe they are making a difference in the safety and overall well-being of US citizens, or otherwise protecting our country, and not simply to be the "first female on the front line".

[TheGrey]

As a female, I appreciate that you clarified that it was your choice to work twice as hard. Some females do choose to work twice as hard simply to prove themselves, to their own self or to others- and all too often in attempt to prove themselves equal to males. Some females act as if their choice to work twice as hard is some sort of favor to the rest of us, when that is not the case. I am perfectly content not being in the military, and not working twice as hard simply to prove myself. I am much happier being good at certain things because I put the time and effort in to become better at them- for my own satisfaction and personal growth.

I don't think men and women are equal. Roles are changing over time, but I still believe we have different strengths and weaknesses, and that when we truly work as a team we can accomplish great things.

I'm sure the women who attempt to fight the front lines have a clear understanding that they will have to work twice as hard to prove themselves as a certain caliber of soldier, and with that comes added stress, health issues, and a more defensive demeanor overall. My hope would be that they are putting themselves out front because they really believe they are making a difference in the safety and overall well-being of US citizens, or otherwise protecting our country, and not simply to be the "first female on the front line".

Bingo! Well-said. I believe that it boils down to intent and motivation, in addition to the physical and mental will. If she's doing it to be the first female on the front line, she's doomed to fail. If she has the physical capability and the willpower to make it happen, as well as the desire to be a capable soldier first, then more power to her. In a combat situation, the team comes first.

[ZERO THEORY]

Any woman that can hump a ruck 20 miles, stay up for 72 hours, and carry a 200 pound casualty, all in a theater of war is fine by me.

Here's the reality: basic physiology is going to make it very difficult for a female physique to withstand the joint compression, ligament fatigue, and muscular stimulus that combat MOSes involve. Plain and simple. There are 10 Ellen Pages to every 1 Gabbi Garcia. The number of Garcias that then decide to eat slop, get bitched at for anything the NCO sees fit, all for $1/hour is going to be pretty slim. So with all that, it seems to me that if the standard is actually upheld, we'll see some very tough and suitable women join the boys up front. However, if the agenda machine keeps turning, you'll get a lot of questionable green lights in cool guy schools, much like the girls that got recycled half a dozen times during Darby phase over the summer.

If you can meet the EXACT same standard as a squared-away man, great. Otherwise...

[Irving]

Oh being in the military isn't easy?

that then decide to eat slop, get bitched at for anything the NCO sees fit, all for $1/hour is going to be pretty slim

The pay is bad too? Then why do the men do it?

I expect better responses in this thread.