Women will be allowed to serve in combat

[Ronin13]

To the Jessica Lynch thing, she wasn't knocked unconscious by a grenade. The controversy over that, and the general feeling of disdain among Army personnel toward her are due to the fact that she, admittedly, didn't fight. She said it, she didn't fight, she didn't fire a single round, and when things looked most grim, she "went down, praying to my knees." That's flat out cowardly. No room for that in any front-line position.

Now, back to the point. Not to sound snobby, or crude, but show of hands, in our modern time, who has been in the service, deployed, outside the wire? If the answer to all of the above is no, you can't really speak legitimately on the topic, as you really don't know what it's like. It's not like on an FOB or in Garrison. Out there, be it at a COP (Combat Out Post), or an LP/OP (Listening Post/Observation Post), for several days with a bunch of guys, bathing (usually with wet wipes), shitting, sleeping, pissing, and in close proximity, things could get ugly adding a female into the mix. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it will be difficult. Sexual harassment will happen at the very least, at worst, rape. Again, not saying it will happen every time, or even a lot of times, but just once and the whole thing will be called into question. Not to mention the very hard period of transition where a female will be viewed as an outsider and the idea of special accommodations needing to be made will create problems. Ever piss into a Gatorade bottle while on a convoy? No? Neither will she. These are issues I can foresee. If individual units can figure out these issues, I'm all for it. But I don't suspect it'll be easy. It's easy on a bigger base to have separate quarters and latrines for men and women, but on smaller outposts I can anticipate issues. Just my $.02.

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[ZERO THEORY]

Any woman that can hump a ruck 20 miles, stay up for 72 hours, and carry a 200 pound casualty, all in a theater of war is fine by me.

Here's the reality: basic physiology is going to make it very difficult for a female physique to withstand the joint compression, ligament fatigue, and muscular stimulus that combat MOSes involve. Plain and simple. There are 10 Ellen Pages to every 1 Gabbi Garcia. The number of Garcias that then decide to eat slop, get bitched at for anything the NCO sees fit, all for $1/hour is going to be pretty slim. So with all that, it seems to me that if the standard is actually upheld, we'll see some very tough and suitable women join the boys up front. However, if the agenda machine keeps turning, you'll get a lot of questionable green lights in cool guy schools, much like the girls that got recycled half a dozen times during Darby phase over the summer.

If you can meet the EXACT same standard as a squared-away man, great. Otherwise...

[Irving]

Oh being in the military isn't easy?

that then decide to eat slop, get bitched at for anything the NCO sees fit, all for $1/hour is going to be pretty slim

The pay is bad too? Then why do the men do it?

I expect better responses in this thread.

[ZERO THEORY]

Oh being in the military isn't easy?




The pay is bad too? Then why do the men do it?

I expect better responses in this thread.

The number of physically-capable American men who join the military and then go combat arms is pretty slim, as well. What part do you not agree with? Do you really think that there is just some giant pool of women 17-30 who are dying to join the infantry, but couldn't, so they got jobs as social workers instead?

[TheGrey]

To the Jessica Lynch thing, she wasn't knocked unconscious by a grenade. The controversy over that, and the general feeling of disdain among Army personnel toward her are due to the fact that she, admittedly, didn't fight. She said it, she didn't fight, she didn't fire a single round, and when things looked most grim, she "went down, praying to my knees." That's flat out cowardly. No room for that in any front-line position.

Now, back to the point. Not to sound snobby, or crude, but show of hands, in our modern time, who has been in the service, deployed, outside the wire? If the answer to all of the above is no, you can't really speak legitimately on the topic, as you really don't know what it's like. It's not like on an FOB or in Garrison. Out there, be it at a COP (Combat Out Post), or an LP/OP (Listening Post/Observation Post), for several days with a bunch of guys, bathing (usually with wet wipes), shitting, sleeping, pissing, and in close proximity, things could get ugly adding a female into the mix. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it will be difficult. Sexual harassment will happen at the very least, at worst, rape. Again, not saying it will happen every time, or even a lot of times, but just once and the whole thing will be called into question. Not to mention the very hard period of transition where a female will be viewed as an outsider and the idea of special accommodations needing to be made will create problems. Ever piss into a Gatorade bottle while on a convoy? No? Neither will she. These are issues I can foresee. If individual units can figure out these issues, I'm all for it. But I don't suspect it'll be easy. It's easy on a bigger base to have separate quarters and latrines for men and women, but on smaller outposts I can anticipate issues. Just my $.02.

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I said nothing about Jessica Lynch fighting, and I am certain there are plenty of men that display "outright cowardice" to your line of thinking, when the rubber hits the road. I've also met a number of men that had nothing but contempt for the military, despite the fact that they were serving. Your points are not solely the purview of the female.

I also suspect that women that want to will be the ones to select combat and combat-support type of jobs. If they can't pass the physical requirements, they'll be washed out to join the other men and women that can't handle it. There are always jobs to be done for support, for painting, and for cleaning.

There will be quite an adjustment period, for both men and women. I would hope to hell that the instructors train female combatants to fend of potential rapists, and that if anyone in the squad attempts such a thing, they learn their lesson quickly. And brutally. Squads are meant to bond together while training, not victimized. On the other hand, women that expect to make selections as though at their very own smorgasbord should not be allowed to remain, either.

Similar arguments were made when the "don't-ask-don't-tell" was enacted; it worked out.

And yes, I have pissed in a Gatorade bottle. I have been the lone female in an all-male shop, and it was not easy. We were on foreign soil, there was sexual harassment from all sides, and because I was female in a male-dominated field, I had to work twice as hard to prove myself. But it was my choice; I persevered, and there came a time when I reached acceptance.

There were also times when I wished that I had a gun on me. I made do, and carried a knife instead.

The point is, of course it will be difficult. It should be. Fighting is a hard, dirty business. There is no room for exceptions. But just as women are expected to meet the standards that men must, the men need to accept that this is something that will be. There must be compromise.

[davsel]

Just when did we run out of men for these positions anyway?

If she meets the standards of a man, is she still a woman?

[TheGrey]

Just when did we run out of men for these positions anyway?

If she meets the standards of a man, is she still a woman?

WOW.

I'm given to understand if she can still run and fetch a sammich for you, then yes.

[davsel]

I'm given to understand if she can still run and fetch a sammich for you, then yes.

Naah, not interested.

[TheGrey]

Naah, not interested.

That wasn't an offer.

[sniper7]

Well if anybody is offering, I could definitely go for a sammich right now