Another shooting

[hurley842002]

DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me. I mean, which laws is it they actively enforce?

With the exception of a few crimes (car theft and the like), everything that happens on the street happens in prison. It's a city behind razor wire, and all crimes are punishable with the serious ones being sent to the DA just like on the street.

[hurley842002]

ALL OF THEM once sentenced,. there's sexual assault, murder, drug possession (enforcement ) talking someone out of killing them self, even Domestic Violence. Of a different sort.



I hear that every so often. Let me ask you and others this

How can one say they're not really LE when they put them self in danger WITHOUT a gun 24/7.. Walking among convicts who at any moment could run a knife of some sort through your ribs, cut your throat, throw feces on you. Even put a contract out on them.
They wear a uniform, are P.O.S.T certified, attend an academy, same BG check as "those real cops" but to you. Not really a cop, why is that?

That's like IMO saying someone behind a desk in the military really isn't a soldier, marine etc, since they didn't see combat.

A uniform's a uniform. it's how one conducts & carries them self in & out of uniform that counts.

Good post.

[Ronin13]

So cops don't have to periodically do background checks after they're hired? In the Army I had to update my clearance every 5 years.

There are reporting requirements when a LEO is arrested and/or charged with a crime. I know my supervisor is notified if I get a speeding ticket (hasn't happened, yet ). If a LEO is arrested, they are put into segregation while in custody in a jail, for their protection. There is no need for most agencies to do a background check after hire unless something comes up, and due to CO POST guidelines, any certified employee facing charges has their agency notified and usually an IA investigation becomes necessary, even before actual charges are filed.

DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me. I mean, which laws is it they actively enforce?

ALL OF THEM once sentenced,. there's sexual assault, murder, drug possession (enforcement ) talking someone out of killing them self, even Domestic Violence. Of a different sort.



I hear that every so often. Let me ask you and others this

How can one say they're not really LE when they put them self in danger WITHOUT a gun 24/7.. Walking among convicts who at any moment could run a knife of some sort through your ribs, cut your throat, throw feces on you. Even put a contract out on them.
They wear a uniform, are P.O.S.T certified, attend an academy, same BG check as "those real cops" but to you. Not really a cop, why is that?

That's like IMO saying someone behind a desk in the military really isn't a soldier, marine etc, since they didn't see combat.

A uniform's a uniform. it's how one conducts & carries them self in & out of uniform that counts.

Not entirely accurate. DOC employees (IE: Prison Guards) are not required to be POST Certified. Even if they are, to maintain certification they have to undergo a mandatory number of hours of in-service training every year (new POST guidelines as of this year). I don't know how DOC would do this as most of their employees aren't certified, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have the certified members receive in-service training to maintain a certification they don't really need for the performance of their jobs (which includes firearms, driving, arrest control, and legal updates). Also, considering that non-certified LE (like detention specialists in county jails, DOC, etc) are not allowed to make lawful arrests, calling them LE is really a misnomer. As a certified and sworn LEO I do not consider DOC employees to be cops. I appreciate the work they do for the crappy pay they receive and the harsh realities they often face with sentenced felons, often dangerous felons, but cops they are not.

[Great-Kazoo]

Not entirely accurate. DOC employees (IE: Prison Guards) are not required to be POST Certified. Even if they are, to maintain certification they have to undergo a mandatory number of hours of in-service training every year (new POST guidelines as of this year). I don't know how DOC would do this as most of their employees aren't certified, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have the certified members receive in-service training to maintain a certification they don't really need for the performance of their jobs (which includes firearms, driving, arrest control, and legal updates). Also, considering that non-certified LE (like detention specialists in county jails, DOC, etc) are not allowed to make lawful arrests, calling them LE is really a misnomer. As a certified and sworn LEO I do not consider DOC employees to be cops. I appreciate the work they do for the crappy pay they receive and the harsh realities they often face with sentenced felons, often dangerous felons, but cops they are not.

In CO perhaps. Elsewhere it's part of the academy.

Other states it's allowed.

[hurley842002]

There are reporting requirements when a LEO is arrested and/or charged with a crime. I know my supervisor is notified if I get a speeding ticket (hasn't happened, yet ). If a LEO is arrested, they are put into segregation while in custody in a jail, for their protection. There is no need for most agencies to do a background check after hire unless something comes up, and due to CO POST guidelines, any certified employee facing charges has their agency notified and usually an IA investigation becomes necessary, even before actual charges are filed.




Not entirely accurate. DOC employees (IE: Prison Guards) are not required to be POST Certified. Even if they are, to maintain certification they have to undergo a mandatory number of hours of in-service training every year (new POST guidelines as of this year). I don't know how DOC would do this as most of their employees aren't certified, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have the certified members receive in-service training to maintain a certification they don't really need for the performance of their jobs (which includes firearms, driving, arrest control, and legal updates). Also, considering that non-certified LE (like detention specialists in county jails, DOC, etc) are not allowed to make lawful arrests, calling them LE is really a misnomer. As a certified and sworn LEO I do not consider DOC employees to be cops. I appreciate the work they do for the crappy pay they receive and the harsh realities they often face with sentenced felons, often dangerous felons, but cops they are not.

Once again the local SME on all things LEO is wrong. I believe the majority of the GK's experience as it pertains to DOC is with the California system, in which they ARE POST certified. All CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS, do qualify on arrest control and firearms, and in Colorado are considered peace officers, so rather or not you want them lumped into your hollier than thou attitude, isn't really up to you. I no longer work for the DOC, but won't forget where I came from. Also, they haven't been called prison guards since before I started, which was about 11 years ago (you were probably complaining about the family business), so please have some respect.

[Martinjmpr]

My vague recollection is that DOC employees are "peace officers" by law so that if an inmate assaults them then in the jail or prison, the charge is the more serious "assaulting a peace officer" charge as opposed to the less serious simple assault charge. I think there may have been an instance (possibly not even in CO) where a prison guard or jail corrrections officer was assaulted by an inmate and because the officer was not formally a "peace officer" as defined by state law, they could not apply the more serious charge.

Here in CO it seems like jail officers are all sworn deputies, i.e. LEOs just like patrol deputies, but I know in other states like NC, it is not uncommon for county jails to be staffed by non-sworn "Corrections Officers" who do not have arrest powers and are not considered "LEO's" by state law.

[cstone]

This incident did not happen in the shooter's work environment or during work hours and would be considered an off-duty shooting.

Let the investigation take it's course. Regardless of the outcome of the criminal investigation, I would expect a civil suit against the shooter and probably his employer.

Do not let this thread take a personal tone. No one here was present and to the best of my knowledge, no one here is involved in the investigation. This leads me to believe that everyone here is expressing opinions. Be civil or this thread will be closed.

[Irving]

I bet Tom Joad was around for the incident.

[Great-Kazoo]

My vague recollection is that DOC employees are "peace officers" by law so that if an inmate assaults them then in the jail or prison, the charge is the more serious "assaulting a peace officer" charge as opposed to the less serious simple assault charge. I think there may have been an instance (possibly not even in CO) where a prison guard or jail corrrections officer was assaulted by an inmate and because the officer was not formally a "peace officer" as defined by state law, they could not apply the more serious charge.

Here in CO it seems like jail officers are all sworn deputies, i.e. LEOs just like patrol deputies, but I know in other states like NC, it is not uncommon for county jails to be staffed by non-sworn "Corrections Officers" who do not have arrest powers and are not considered "LEO's" by state law.

Larimer cty jail LCSO's. Unless somethings changed A County Sheriff is a LE.
The Sheriff’s Office is currently the largest single agency in Larimer County government. The Agency performs most of the peace keeping and emergency services for the unincorporated sections of Larimer County, and maintains the only detention center in the county. The Sheriff's Office currently employs over 430 people in over 50 different job classifications.


Now weld cty has sheriffs AND "DETENTION SPECIALIST" Most hires start at the jail and rotate out after X time, as job openings become available.

So it's clear there's no standard / uniformity when it comes to job description and or classification for DOC in CO. Go Figure.

Looks like everyone is correct,to a point.

[hurley842002]

This incident did not happen in the shooter's work environment or during work hours and would be considered an off-duty shooting.

Let the investigation take it's course. Regardless of the outcome of the criminal investigation, I would expect a civil suit against the shooter and probably his employer.

Do not let this thread take a personal tone. No one here was present and to the best of my knowledge, no one here is involved in the investigation. This leads me to believe that everyone here is expressing opinions. Be civil or this thread will be closed.

My apologies, apparently a nerve was struck on my end.