Interesting conundrum

[Bailey Guns]

Assuming the .gov hasn't already got the data they want from the phone...

Why not give the phone to Apple, have Apple get all data off the phone and decrypt it, Apple turns over data to FBI and keeps the phone if it would compromise how they unlocked it. I have no idea it that would work.

[roberth]

What I'm hearing now is that they just want to remove the "time out" for failed passwords, so they can use a brute force attack to gain access to the phone, or they want Apple to devise a way around the password so that the data does not get erase/corrupted. Either way, it sets a bad precedent by proving that it *can* be done.

The government will abuse any and all power given to it.

[n2877]

I say no to the government being able to backdoor there way in. What's to stop them from using it on anyone else and not just IPhone users but all Americans. I still believe in privacy.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[TFOGGER]

The government will abuse any and all power given to it.

Not only the government but other bad actors as well. Proof of concept is all many black hats need to find motivation to accomplish a breach.

[Irving]

You guys need to see the silver lining in all this. The next three Bond movies can be about Bond struggling to protect his iPhone from the overwhelming force of the US government penetrating his back door!

[Kraven251]

The passcode is encrypted, the phone MAY be encrypted. Both Apple and Google changed practices ~8 years ago after a shitstorm hit them both, and there were no more default back doors to their products.

That said Apple has also done a bang up job of integrating their software and hardware on those devices, meaning you cannot separate the storage from the device, as it is actually paired to the device and a unique key value, while not exactly encryption it is of sorts.

All of that to say, No, I do not think Apple needs to unlock the phone if it compromises all phones. I mean weren't we already assured that they acted alone?

Living in a free society is not always safe, but I will accept that risk to continue to live in a free society.

[cstone]

Apple's letter to their customers - http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

"Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.
The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control."

IMO, I am fairly certain that no court or government agency will be able to force any person or corporation to do what the FBI is asking Apple to do. It would be different if Congress passed legislation requiring this type of feature be built into products. I am guessing that if that were the case, a group of companies would then challenge the legislation in court and then the companies and the public would know what the government was doing and we would have an idea on the limitations or capability of products sold in the USA. Then the blackmarket in bootlegged jail broken products would grow.

Many of these issues are not new. I had an interesting conversation back in 1992 with Phil Zimmermann regarding PGP. Many of the issues being discussed in today's issue with Apple iOS and their encryption are the same issues we discussed back in 1992. Zimmermann was correct then and I agreed with him then.

For anyone interested, here is an open letter Zimmermann wrote back in 1991 - https://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/es...IWrotePGP.html

[davsel]

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=231127

Folks, this is not what it appears nor how it is being reported.

I ran an Internet company in the 1990s. We used to get subpoenas from the government in the normal course of business; ironically, the most-common source was from Customs (at the time they handled most of the kiddie porn cases.)

The government can compel you to testify either in person or by record production -- that is, they can compel you to turn over something you have. That's what a subpoena or court order does and we complied with these subpoenas as an ordinary matter of operations because there is nothing legally -- or constitutionally -- wrong with being compelled to testify (whether by document or by personal utterance) to the truth before a court of law.

But the government has no power to compel you to make that which you do not have.

It does not matter if the government is offering to pay Apple or not, nor does it matter how much they are offering to pay. There is no authority anywhere in the Constitution and in fact there is an explicit prohibition against involuntary servitude, with pay or not, in the 13th Amendment:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Apple not only has not been convicted of a crime it has not even been accused of an offense.

There is simply no authority for the FBI or any other organ of the government to compel the company to make anything. They can compel the firm to hand over something the company possesses under due process of law but in this case the operating system version they wish to obtain does not exist.

A judicially-issued demand to Apple, or anyone else, that reads "Write software to do X for us" is facially invalid.

Such an "order" is nothing less than a demand that Apple submit to slavery, which is prohibited under the US Constitution. We fought a war in this country and large swaths of our nation were literally sacked, burned to the ground, over this exact issue 150 years ago.

Any government agency issuing such a demand is lawless, has attempted a bald unconstitutional act and no longer carries any legitimacy in this country, nor does any Judge have standing to issue such a facially void order.

Period.

[hatidua]

Evidence on the phone may provide leads on other known associates and conspirators involved in terrorist activity.

That could be said of thousands of phones in this country. Where do you stop? one phone? only phones owned by people that have entered the country recently from the middle east? only phones of those who have filled out a 4473 in the past 30 years?

Wouldn't you at least expect your government to pursue the evidence?

I know you mean well, but that sounds all too much like paraphrasing "common sense reasonable gun control", and "if it could save just one life".

No, in this case, I'm willing to let the government to be blind.

[bigshane]

Many of these issues are not new. I had an interesting conversation back in 1992 with Phil Zimmermann regarding PGP. Many of the issues being discussed in today's issue with Apple iOS and their encryption are the same issues we discussed back in 1992. Zimmermann was correct then and I agreed with him then.

For anyone interested, here is an open letter Zimmermann wrote back in 1991 - https://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/es...IWrotePGP.html

I wholeheartedly agree. I remember reading this, some years later, and being compelled to start using pgp (and subsequently gpg) anytime I possibly could.

The above link is a must read.