Car crashes

[Aloha_Shooter]

After looking at the news article on the Boulder shooting, I saw another headline that caught my eye about a rear-end crash killing 2 people

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boul...rear-end-crash

I of course feel bad for the friends and family of the couple in question and the courts will deal with the juvenile driver who rear-ended the couple. What intrigued me was that the driver who rear-ended them (in a 2002 VW Jetta) was released from the hospital with minor injuries. The couple was in a 2010 Honda Fit, strapped in with the seat belts, but taken to the hospital in critical condition and then had life support turned off after a 3-4 days.

Just wondering if any of the insurance or LEO guys here have better insight into a crash like this. It's not like a Jetta is HUGE and there's a LOT of crumple zone between the rear end and the front seats on a Fit. Granted, the offending driver was doing at least 45 mph with minimal braking when he hit them but I would have thought the couple that died were in the best possible circumstances being supported in the back by the seats, belts on, etc. while the juvenile would have been in the worst circumstance.

File this under "sub-compacts are scary" or was there more at play than the article suggests?

[cstone]

Many factors involved. Age and fitness level of the injured are often not considered unless you live in Phoenix or Florida. Minor accidents in these places are often referred to as "fender bender fatalities."

[Irving]

Position of passengers probably plays a role as well. If the car is stopped and the occupants are leaning toward each other kissing, that'd be a pretty terrible time to get rear ended I'd think. How terrible.

[MarkCO]

I do accident reconstruction professionally and a 45 mph impact is significant. Front seat seatbacks, especially in the Japanese cars, collapse in the range of 30-50 mph with a rear impact, depending on several factors. There is also no airbag protection for a rear impact, if the airbags were even "awake". On some vehicles, a minimum speed (from about 12-18 mph) is required for the airbag module to be awake and capable of triggering. If the seat back and headrest are not oriented optimally, an occupant can slide over the back of the seat/headrest and suffer significant neck injuries. Most people sit too close to the steering wheel and lay their seatbacks too far back to be optimal for a high speed rear impact. Most foreign car makers, and Honda is included here, meet the minimum standards for rear impact protection, but exceed the standards for front impact protection.

Another thing to consider is that vehicle safety ratings are significantly flawed in that they only are comparisons to other cars "in class". In addition, the ratings in part are based on $ to repair and so cheaper cars rate higher than more expensive case. Compacts and sub-compacts, even with a 5 star rating are, at best, a 2 or 3 star in the average accident. 3/4 Ton American trucks are some of the safest vehicles (for the occupants) to drive. Small mini-vans are some of the most dangerous to drive. Don't even get me started on the battery packs in the hybrids.

[Dave_L]

. 3/4 Ton American trucks are some of the safest vehicles (for the occupants) to drive.

As a 2500 driver, this makes me happy.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Hmm ... hadn't thought about the occupants leaning over and smooching at the light.

Thanks for the feedback on accident reconstruction. I knew 45 mph as significant but was just trying to envision the physics at play and trying to figure out how they got so hurt under that geometry. I knew the crash ratings were flawed due to be being "in class" but I had never heard about people sliding over the back of the seat/headrest. I feel bad for everyone involved in that accident (wouldn't want to carry that guilt with me for the rest of my life like the kid probably will) but am glad to learn from it.

[buffalobo]

The issue of front seat backs collapsing has been getting more attention recently.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[ray1970]

As others mentioned, a 45 mph impact is pretty significant. Even if the projectile only weighs 2,500 pounds.

If you've ever seen footage of some of those crash tests done at 30 mph they are pretty impressive. Factor in another 15 mph and it gets exponentially worse. Although, impacting another vehicle versus a fixed object likely takes the level of devastation down a bit.

[cmailliard]

Mark is pretty much spot on. I have seen some smaller cars do well. I T-Boned a lady in Ft Collins many years ago. I hit her doing 45 smack in the middle of the passenger side front door (there was someone sitting there). Even with the side impact airbags (saved her life) she had a lacerated liver, broken ribs and a punctured lung. She was in a Volvo.

Seat belts are everything, especially in a rollover. The auto accident scene I transported the least number of times was a rollover. Either the occupants were out of the car walking around (they were restrained) or they were out of the car dead (they were not restrained). Very rarely was there an emergent return from a rollover. Think Rusty Wallace (Massive Rollover like 30 times) vs Dale Earnhardt (Straight into the wall)

Every accident is very different as to the mechanism. Speed, location of impact, type of vehicle, all go into how bad an accident is. All in all there are very safe vehicles out there, but even a stupid driver can make the safest vehicle unsafe. Here are a few pics from some accidents I ran on. There were so many more that were even worse, whenever I go back to Omaha I visit the scene of one my worst calls ever, 4 victims, 2 fatalities all high school kids. I was 22 at the time and it was a horrible scene. If you ever take any of my classes just ask, I will tell you about it.

vs. tree (Engine into front seat, this was a fatal)


Range Rover vs. Truck (Loaded with asphalt shingles) He was going very fast and hit this truck going very slow. This was a fatal as well (week later)

[Snowman78]

Mark is pretty much spot on. I have seen some smaller cars do well. I T-Boned a lady in Ft Collins many years ago. I hit her doing 45 smack in the middle of the passenger side front door (there was someone sitting there). Even with the side impact airbags (saved her life) she had a lacerated liver, broken ribs and a punctured lung. She was in a Volvo.

Seat belts are everything, especially in a rollover. The auto accident scene I transported the least number of times was a rollover. Either the occupants were out of the car walking around (they were restrained) or they were out of the car dead (they were not restrained). Very rarely was there an emergent return from a rollover. Think Rusty Wallace (Massive Rollover like 30 times) vs Dale Earnhardt (Straight into the wall)

Every accident is very different as to the mechanism. Speed, location of impact, type of vehicle, all go into how bad an accident is. All in all there are very safe vehicles out there, but even a stupid driver can make the safest vehicle unsafe. Here are a few pics from some accidents I ran on. There were so many more that were even worse, whenever I go back to Omaha I visit the scene of one my worst calls ever, 4 victims, 2 fatalities all high school kids. I was 22 at the time and it was a horrible scene. If you ever take any of my classes just ask, I will tell you about it.

vs. tree (Engine into front seat, this was a fatal)


Range Rover vs. Truck (Loaded with asphalt shingles) He was going very fast and hit this truck going very slow. This was a fatal as well (week later)

Aside for suicide (people commit suicide in the vehicle alot) 90% of the fatal MV crashes I work are due to roll over and not wearing a seatbelt.