Solar Stuff...

[Grant H.]

Grant, would it be feasible to use a solar set-up with both capacitors and a battery bank? I'm thinking that the capacitors would be your workhorse for most use, which would keep your battery bank unused for longer periods. Seems like you could work off of a smaller battery bank for recovery if the super caps can be operating more quickly, giving the batteries more time to charge back up if there were several days without good sun.

I have an idea for a project. If it becomes a reality, I plan on contacting you as I'd like to make a serious effort if the time and money are there at the same time.

Yeah, it's feasible. I have a couple ideas that have bounced around my head before that would make this doable. It all comes down to how you set it up on whether the caps get pulled down first or if the batteries do.

I'm curious what your idea is...

[Irving]

Well, I just built a chicken coop that has a South-ish facing roof slope that is 6'x10'. I'd like to load it with as many panels as possible. I could probably get away with like a 30w panel for all my chicken coop needs (auto opening doors and some winter LED lighting, maybe some cameras). I figure that if done well, I can have it double as a solar generator that I can plug my fridges or stuff into if I ever needed. I like the idea because it allows me to have something that is dual purpose and doesn't poke holes in my roof.

EDIT: I assume that it could get pretty complicated as far as running super caps and batteries since you'd still need a solar controller for the batteries, but maybe then you're reducing efficiency with the super caps. In my minds eye, I'd end up with a 500-600 watt solar generator that runs my coop all the time, but then I can run some speakers, charge tools, an electric scooter, or if the super caps work out, maybe even a saw or something when I'm building something outside. I just don't know how feasible it all is. I'm sure it can be done, but would it be worth it if it costs me $5,000? Maybe not. As with most of my projects, it seems like something I'd like to experiment with just to do so. Plus I'll have plenty of capacity if I wanted to add on with yard lights, or a pond/fountain with the pump and heater run off of solar or whatever stuff I imagine up in the future.

[Grant H.]

Well, I just built a chicken coop that has a South-ish facing roof slope that is 6'x10'. I'd like to load it with as many panels as possible. I could probably get away with like a 30w panel for all my chicken coop needs (auto opening doors and some winter LED lighting, maybe some cameras). I figure that if done well, I can have it double as a solar generator that I can plug my fridges or stuff into if I ever needed. I like the idea because it allows me to have something that is dual purpose and doesn't poke holes in my roof.

EDIT: I assume that it could get pretty complicated as far as running super caps and batteries since you'd still need a solar controller for the batteries, but maybe then you're reducing efficiency with the super caps. In my minds eye, I'd end up with a 500-600 watt solar generator that runs my coop all the time, but then I can run some speakers, charge tools, an electric scooter, or if the super caps work out, maybe even a saw or something when I'm building something outside. I just don't know how feasible it all is. I'm sure it can be done, but would it be worth it if it costs me $5,000? Maybe not. As with most of my projects, it seems like something I'd like to experiment with just to do so. Plus I'll have plenty of capacity if I wanted to add on with yard lights, or a pond/fountain with the pump and heater run off of solar or whatever stuff I imagine up in the future.

Your idea seems perfectly reasonable, but you are right, that it does add complexity since the batteries require a controller, and the super caps don't.

http://www.ecodirect.com/Canadian-So...k-300ms-t4.htm

Gets you 900W on your roof space.

I'll try and draw some stuff up tonight as a starting point for you.

[Irving]

Thanks for the link, I was hoping you'd have insight into stuff that is better than I've been finding on Amazon. Seems like I might be able to build a pretty decent generator with 900 watts.

[Grant H.]

Thanks for the link, I was hoping you'd have insight into stuff that is better than I've been finding on Amazon. Seems like I might be able to build a pretty decent generator with 900 watts.

Sorry, got tied up welding last night.

Ecodirect isn't the best pricing that can be had, but they are usually a pretty easy place to look and see what's available.

These guys website blows, but they have good pricing. Call them to find out what they have and what the pricing is. They have a warehouse in Denver as well.
http://sunelec.com/home/

[Irving]

Thanks for posting that website again. I was trying to click on that link in the earlier part of the thread and it would never come up.

[Grant H.]

I'm working up an estimate for a massive DIY solar grid-tie - understanding of course that the permitting process is a pain in the ass times twelve.

http://sunelec.com/Solar%20Systems.pdf

Using that as a source of estimation, two 7.6KW Inverters and 60 280W panels (basically 2/3 of the 25KW system), plus the pro rata share of the racking, optimizer, and quick-mounts comes to about $20,000-ish. Estimating a budget of 2000 for conduit, copper, and subpanels, plus a budget of 2000 for permitting/planning, does that sound about right? 24K-ish for a 16KWH DIY install? This is for a sort-of-high end duplex with optimal real estate for panels [no trees, perfect south facing 1:3 roof]. Would there be ways to save additional money?

Now, here's another factor, I'd prefer not to separate the 7.6KW Inverters as one per side - I'd rather combine them on the main and then essentially feed each side as a subpanel. Perhaps asking Xcel to reduce the system to a single meter (if they would let us...?) As the electrical usage of each side is *not* balanced, one side needs to "borrow" power from the other.

So... what am I f'ing up in my figuring here. Because it's going to be something.

I'm very comfortable roofing and working with power, but I have yet to dig heavy into engineering any kind of solar system.


Side question: I've heard in the past that it's better to use a ton of microinverters so that down the road, bad panels in the array don't feck the overall generation. What's your general thoughts on that?

I apologize. I didn't realize I had missed your questions. (The system you linked doesn't show right now, so I can't speak directly to that one).

I'm not as helpful on the grid-tie side of what Xcel can/will do, because I have generally stayed away from it. Most of the inverters are considered "load balancing", but it's the wrong direction. You want to load balance between two solar arrays, not between the solar array and the grid. That makes this a little more difficult.

I honestly don't think you are missing much in your estimate, at the $24k for the system. Ways to save some money, albeit likely take more time, is to build your own mounting solution instead of using pre-manufactured solar panel racks. You can also look at pricing things separately (sometimes the kits are a good deal, and sometimes they aren't). A quick glance says your 16.8KW of panels should be about $8400, Probably $9000 by the time they are shipped. You can then bounce around for different inverters and maybe cut some money out.

Did the kit you linked include any batteries? Are you wanting to run any batteries?

[Grant H.]

Side question: I've heard in the past that it's better to use a ton of microinverters so that down the road, bad panels in the array don't feck the overall generation. What's your general thoughts on that?

The microinverter game has both ups and downs.

While it's true that they help with a single panel failing, and not causing issues for the whole array, you also now have that many inverters that can fail. Generally, due to the pricing game that everything comes down to, the microinverters are not as robust and reliable as good quality Outback, Schneider, etc inverters.

It also means that you have 120 or 240 VAC (depending on the panel and inverters) running all over your roof. As a counter point, most MPPT solar arrays are going to be running up to 150VDC.

[JackRyan]

Any one know what size solar panel I would need to charge a single battery for my pop up camper?

[gnihcraes]

How quick do you want to charge it?

I use a 100 watt panel on mine. Full 8 hours to recharge on a sunny day and little battery use during that time. Battery isnt fully drained either before charging up. Sometime I'll add more panels for a quicker charge.

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