I was a Cruz guy from the beginning...

[asmo]

There is no surviving a Hillary presidency solely because of the Supreme Court. It will shift far left so hard and there will never be any recovery. You can kiss your firearm rights goodbye (and the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents. Oh, 15 round limit? Ok. 10 round limit? Ok. 5 round limit? Ok. At what point is your firearms worth more than spending time with your kids?

So.... it is paramount that people do not vote third party in critical swing states. Ignore the f'ing presidency, the executive honestly doesn't do that much.

Vote only for the Supreme Court... do you want it 6:3 conservative [Ruth is going to move to New Zealand I think! LOL], or 7:2 "progressive" [Chances are very high we will lose 2 more conservative justices in the next 8]?

The problem is, even if you get Gary Johnson elected 8 years from now (riiiiight, but lets pretend) your hillary court will have revoked every right you ever gave a damn about and Gary won't be able to do anything about it - he would get maybe 1 SCOTUS nomination in 8 years, probably of a conservative, so the court would stay 7:2 "progressive". When it comes down to it, the president doesn't have nearly the power people think they do.... the most important power they have is appointing justices.

I agree with everything above about judges having the power and that the next President will have a giant amount of 2nd order power. (and the molan labe bullshit)

What I am also saying is that Hillary will be the next President - start accepting, and preparing for, that eventuality. If I end up being wrong - so what.

[kidicarus13]

(and the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents. Oh, 15 round limit? Ok. 10 round limit? Ok. 5 round limit? Ok.

YEP

[Ah Pook]

There is no surviving a Hillary presidency solely because of the Supreme Court. It will shift far left so hard and there will never be any recovery. You can kiss your firearm rights goodbye (and the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents. Oh, 15 round limit? Ok. 10 round limit? Ok. 5 round limit? Ok. At what point is your firearms worth more than spending time with your kids?

So.... it is paramount that people do not vote third party in critical swing states. Ignore the f'ing presidency, the executive honestly doesn't do that much.

Vote only for the Supreme Court... do you want it 6:3 conservative [Ruth is going to move to New Zealand I think! LOL], or 7:2 "progressive" [Chances are very high we will lose 2 more conservative justices in the next 8]?

The problem is, even if you get Gary Johnson elected 8 years from now (riiiiight, but lets pretend) your hillary court will have revoked every right you ever gave a damn about and Gary won't be able to do anything about it - he would get maybe 1 SCOTUS nomination in 8 years, probably of a conservative, so the court would stay 7:2 "progressive". When it comes down to it, the president doesn't have nearly the power people think they do.... the most important power they have is appointing justices.

Uh hu. Right on the button. As much as I hate Trump, there is no other option.

[Aloha_Shooter]

False dichotomy. Also, the definition of "win" is not universally defined and agreed to by all parties.

No, it's not. The Clintons downplayed the dichtomy to their success in both 1992 and 1996. Wilson played it successfully in 1912. In all three cases, the worst of two bad choices got into office because someone better (but in an unelectable situation) split the vote. What did we get from that? In Wilson's case, the League of Nations and World War I as well as leftist and racist policies. In Clinton's case, we got the AWB, 2 ultra-leftwing SCOTUS justices who shouldn't even have been sitting in the appellate court, Enron, the housing bubble, disembowelment of the military and intelligence (just the entire national security apparatus) communities, embedded politicization of the DOJ, Somalia, and the spawning of Al Qaeda (resulting in two embassy bombings and the USS Cole). As bad as Bush the Elder was, NONE of the items I've mentioned would have occurred in a Bush second term. World War I probably would still have happened but there's a chance it wouldn't have ballooned the way it did if the League of Nations hadn't set up the network of alliances or had been set up with enough teeth to put down an aggressor.

I agree with everything above about judges having the power and that the next President will have a giant amount of 2nd order power. (and the molan labe bullshit)

What I am also saying is that Hillary will be the next President - start accepting, and preparing for, that eventuality. If I end up being wrong - so what.

Prepare, yes. Accept, no. The problem isn't with you being wrong -- that happens a lot -- the problem is the self-fulfilling prophecy that makes you right because of idiots who won't turn out to vote or who throw a possible anti-Clinton vote away by "voting their conscience." I understood why people voted their conscience in 1992 with Perot but by 1996 they should have realized just how bad Clinton was and how futile Perot's campaign was.

Uh hu. Right on the button. As much as I hate Trump, there is no other option.

Bingo. If you want to protect the Constitution, Trump gives me the willies but anything other than voting for him is basically a vote to strike out the Second Amendment -- and the First, Fourth, and Fifth for anyone who isn't solidly onboard the leftwing agenda train. Clinton's past history has shown how she misuses and abuses official powers, how she sells out the American citizenry to line her own pockets. You think the IRS and DOJ malfeasances under Obama were bad? Just wait until Hillary gets to control them.