80% lower Question

[Great-Kazoo]

He needs a higher post count.

Mmmmmmm

[Joe_K]

Wrong gender

?

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi

[OneGuy67]

That guy seemed pretty capable and I'd like him to give it another shot, but not everyone figures out the nuances of the Internet forum right away.

I was interested in his builds and I learned there were 80% Sig products out there and that excited me. However, he is ignorant to some things and the peeps on this forum are anything if not making sure we are lawful in what we do in order to not show a negative light to our hobby. If he stays, he will have to learn that. If he goes...his loss.

[Great-Kazoo]

?

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi

President / gender......................................

Tough crowd.

[SA Friday]

Hey SA if your so against 80% lowers and if they are just a bad idea then why were you grilling me about how to anodize one. You obviously don't care for them. Were you even interested in the anodizing or were you just trying to be an asshole in my thread cause you don't like 80% lowers. Also why are you working on 80% lowers if your so against them and they are crap? All the reputable gunsmiths I know refuse to even touch them because it's up to the owner to complete them.

I know he's gone, but I'll answer this anyway for future reference. 80% lowers have problems with the lack of surface hardening that anodizing makes. The holes wobble out for the hammer and trigger and safety selector. KNS pins help, but eventually even they are futile if the holes get too out of spec. Then you have a couple of hundred dollars sunk into a piece of shit paperweight. There are lots of motivations to go this route, but the one I hear constantly is to circumvent a government paper trail. Sorry, but the purchase of the 80% lower left a trail. I know, I used to run down trails like this all the time as a fed. The other is because they want to make their own, it's an extension of building your own gun. I get it. I do it for a living. Because I build about 500 ARs a year and service three times that I get to see what does and doesn't work. These don't, not for any lengthy about of use at least. So you get stuck. The solution is to anodize it and extend the longevity. One can look around for someone who can anodize it for them and learn that NOBODY legitimately can take that unserialized lower and anodize it. If you know someone who professionally finishes aluminum parts, you might be able to convince them to commit a class 2 felony for you. You will get a really nice anodized finish that way. You can then run around at tell all your buddies and anyone else that will listen how you did a home anodizing finish on it. Having seen home anodizing jobs by some really experienced gunsmiths, I can tell you one isn't just going to arbitrarily shit out a professional anodizing job on anything without dropping at least $500 and ruining about a dozen 'learning pieces'. By the time someone has it down, they have gone through enough money to build two of the guns they want with high quality parts completed by a legitimate manufacturer. OR!!!! Convince a buddy to do the finish under the table. Personally, I really could care less.

Now, here's were I get fucking annoyed with people. You start positing pics of your 80% shit on line and believe that nobody is going to call you on your under the table finish job. You can't explain how you did the finish, and you know damn well you can't admit you convinced a buddy to commit a felony for you. How can anyone be able to describe in detail exactly how they CNC machined a sig lower but when asked multiple times how they anodized the lower can only post a you tube video? This fails even the most simple critical thinking.

Here's the problem if I would have done nothing, impression. This give the impression that the gun community publicly turns a blind eye to these issues. Mark my words here and now, 80% lowers are going to die a legislative death and it will happen soon. Having guys posting threads where it's easy to see they probably got someone to break the law for them brings the shit pie to our doorstep when that legislative fight comes. It doesn't matter if we all think its right or wrong. Public sentiment in a federal republic does count.

As for working on other's 80% lowers, I do deal with them. So does everyone at Bowers Tactical. We try to help everyone we can. That doesn't mean we won't tell you the truth about your 80% lower weather it's amazing machining or just plain fucked up. We will tell you what issue to keep an eye out for and possible solutions when they occur. We will help you as much as legally allowed. We will not let you leave the 80% lower, EVER! Not even to go to your car with it sitting on the table. If you want to know where you can get a kit to anodize at home, I'll even pull the one company that has a pretty legit system for home brewing the coating up and give you the info.

But don't come on this site bullshitting about getting someone to commit a felony for you. That fucking pisses me off.

[colorider]

Tanks for the detailed info safriday. Stuff I never knew and pretty much convinced me doing an 80% lower would be a fun project, but not a fun project with a long term usable product.

[Irving]

To be clear, a completed lower with a serial number can be left some where, right? Or is this a new thing with the recent ITAR changes?

[OneGuy67]

To be clear, a completed lower with a serial number can be left some where, right? Or is this a new thing with the recent ITAR changes?

Yes, to the first part.

[68Charger]

Looks like I missed a bunch of drama...

To SA's point- there are different "types" of anodizing...
type I uses chromic acid, and is a soft, ductile treatment... not hardened at all- for different applications than AR lowers

type II uses sulfuric acid, with a thickness of 1.8-25 microns, and can be done at home with the right equipment- even a battery charger- the better controlled the process, the thicker the anodizing will be.

type III uses sulfuric/oxalic acid solution that is refrigerated to near freezing, and much higher voltage and current levels (~6A per sq ft) to get thickness 13-150 microns. This is really beyond any home setup, as you need a liquid chiller that is resistant to acid (titanium), as well as high quality power supply that can supply constant current (as opposed to constant voltage like most power supplies)
As you add more power, the acid will heat up, and your chiller needs to be of enough capacity to keep the temperature controlled. Then there's the issue that type 3 anodizing has much smaller pores- so is much more difficult to dye (requiring special dye).

If I owned all the special equipment, I wouldn't want to allow someone to use it to anodizing their lower- besides the obvious liability issues. And the way the laws are currently interpreted, if I assisted I need a 07 FFL.

[68Charger]

To be clear, a completed lower with a serial number can be left some where, right? Or is this a new thing with the recent ITAR changes?

Somewhere with an FFL- and it goes in their log book