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  1. #31
    "Beef Bacon" Commie Grant H.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim K View Post
    I'm working with a new shooter at the moment, and I'm torn about how to advise him. He's on a very tight budget and already owns an R700 in 308 that seems to shoot a minute or a little less. We've discussed re-barreling in something 6.5, buying the Ruger, or just sticking with the .308 for a season. In the end and primarily due to his lack of budget, I recommend he keep the .308 and work up a load for 155's. He's planning to shoot unknown distance matches like the Safari. My reasoning is thus:

    We all recommend that New Guys shoot as much as they can. Since he's on a budget, he obviously saves (or defers) the cost of a barrel, new dies, etc. and can spend that money on components and match fees. In addition, barrel life will be very long compared to the other options saving even more bank.

    The 155's seem like a good choice since he's aiming at matches where the shooting positions suck and impacts are hard to spot. The reduced recoil can only help. I forgot, I recommended a brake as well. The extra speed of the 155's will also reduce the criticality of ranging when it's happening on the clock.

    He'd figure out how to afford one of the other options if I told him that was the best plan, so it's still on the table. It'll put a serious dent in his ammo budget, though.

    What do you guys think? Did I steer him wrong?
    Without knowing what his budget really is, I think you gave him the best advice he could get for the time being. Getting a taste for this sport, before spending a pile of cash, is a great way to make sure it's not money "wasted". I know that money spent on good rifles and glass is never "wasted", but if he decides he doesn't like this side of the sport, he doesn't have to recoup that money to focus on something else.

    Working a load with the 155's that's tailored to his rifles will likely yield some increase in accuracy over his current minute or so, making the existing 700 a decent learning gun. Reloading for the .308 doesn't have to be that expensive, and parts are usually pretty available. I really like shooting my 155 loads, and I don't find the recoil that obnoxious, even without a brake on one of them. The others have brakes, and it does help with spotting hits/misses, but it's not a necessity, IMO.
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  2. #32
    Former Shooter
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    Yeah the magic number with 155's is 2850 or better and they don't shine till above 2900 . Pretty sure Mary Beth is 12 now IIRC .

  3. #33
    Tims Favorite Dick
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Ward View Post
    Yeah the magic number with 155's is 2850 or better and they don't shine till above 2900 . Pretty sure Mary Beth is 12 now IIRC .
    Actually she just turned 9 on the 21st. She's headed to the GAP Grind this weekend. She's paired up with Melissa Gilliland And is getting very excited!

  4. #34
    Former Shooter
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    Some reason I thought she was older than that . Makes the ass whoopin sting a little more .

  5. #35
    Machine Gunner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim K View Post
    I'm working with a new shooter at the moment, and I'm torn about how to advise him. He's on a very tight budget and already owns an R700 in 308 that seems to shoot a minute or a little less. We've discussed re-barreling in something 6.5, buying the Ruger, or just sticking with the .308 for a season. In the end and primarily due to his lack of budget, I recommend he keep the .308 and work up a load for 155's. He's planning to shoot unknown distance matches like the Safari. My reasoning is thus:

    We all recommend that New Guys shoot as much as they can. Since he's on a budget, he obviously saves (or defers) the cost of a barrel, new dies, etc. and can spend that money on components and match fees. In addition, barrel life will be very long compared to the other options saving even more bank.

    The 155's seem like a good choice since he's aiming at matches where the shooting positions suck and impacts are hard to spot. The reduced recoil can only help. I forgot, I recommended a brake as well. The extra speed of the 155's will also reduce the criticality of ranging when it's happening on the clock.

    He'd figure out how to afford one of the other options if I told him that was the best plan, so it's still on the table. It'll put a serious dent in his ammo budget, though.

    What do you guys think? Did I steer him wrong?
    Why not make a change to a Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor prefit barrel. I got mine with the lug and nut in stainless for just under $400. I'm on a budget as well, and it took me 2 years to get a rifle completed. He could sell the old 308 barrel for around $100, then it wouldn't sting as bad.

  6. #36
    Tims Favorite Dick
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Ward View Post
    Some reason I thought she was older than that . Makes the ass whoopin sting a little more .
    Lol! I know that's right!

  7. #37
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    Thanks for the info on the 155's Chuck and Pedro. I'll pass that along and suggest he buy a box of 100 before committing.

    It's still hard to believe a 9 year old can beat my ass, but the last time I shot at Raton with her she pretty much spanked me.
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  8. #38
    Varmiteer DocMedic's Avatar
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    So the situation you are in was me last year in October, and actually many years before that but I decided to finally act at the beginning of this year. As you I had a itch to get into PRS style shooting and already had a pretty good 308 bolt gun. A FN-SPR-A5. My experience to rifle style competitions has been 3 gun since 2009 which I shoot at least one major 3gun match a year (He-Man nationals) with my Heman setup with the rifle being a GAP-10 18inch barrel 308. My GAP would always group 3/4inch at 100yards with SMK and TMK's 155's, but anytime I ran the load through my FN I would get +2inch or bigger groups, I just came to the realization that I just can't shoot a boltgun worth a damn.

    I shot a couple of PRS style rifle matches with my 3gun rifle with a bushnell tactical 3x-12 and one Major match and did ok... but I wanted something a little more design for the game but was at a loss as I just couldn't get my FN to group well. After some convincing from people here at COar15 I tried out 175's out of my 308 and bam groups tighten to 1/2 inch out of the FN. Cool... except 175's coming out at 2600ish fps out of a 24 inch gun is a thumper. So I was in the hunt for a 6.5 RPR, but during that time they were vaporware and some places that did have them wanted x2 MSRP. Since I didn't want to spend 2k on a Ruger I weighed my options, either shoot the FN for the handful of PRS style Major matches I wanted to shoot this year, or go with a custom/AI build.

    I've done a ton of research and basically it came down that 6.xx is just superior to 308 in everyway. Yes PRS has a separate 308/223 division but not all the matches I'll be attending were PRS, so I decided I'm going the 6.xx route. After talking to a few 3gun/PRS high level competitors the "cheaper" route would be to rebarrel the FN since I already have 2 other rifles that were in 308, the GAP-10 and G-II. And everyone that I talked to agreed the FN action (Winchester 70) is actually pretty rock solid system, since it already came with a A5 Stock that's been bedded, 20MOA rail, and been trued at factory. Only issue is there's like one guy in Colorado that can spin a barrel on a FN. So after talking to Fritz that now works at Mile High, he convinced me to go 6.5 Creedmoor as it would give me more bang for my buck and then he went to work. He put in a new bartlen 1-8 26" barrel, threaded it and did his voodoo, as well as put in a new bottom metal that accepts AI mags and a 2lbs trigger job. When I got the gun back in Feb the first 3 shots from factory 140 Hornady Amax at 100yards was a little larger then 1/4inch. Since then I've worked up a pretty good load with Hornady 140s ELD's that stay within that group size now. I topped the rifle with a Bushnell Elite 4.5-30 G2 that I got at a killer deal at Mile high, and this rifle has quickly became one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

    NOW.. with that said, if I do burnout the barrel on this rifle in the future instead of rebarreling the rifle, I'll more then likely go with a custom build that has the ability to put custom barrels on with some sort of "quick" change system. Nothing wrong with the FN as its hell of a shooter but it did cost me 1k to get the work done + the barrel. So my answer is to buy a more expensive solution down the road :P.

    A lot of great answers are in this thread and I can only tell you what I personally went through this past year as my experience seems to mimic your current situation.
    Last edited by DocMedic; 10-06-2016 at 14:47.

  9. #39
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    A custom action switch barrel is going to be the same money as having a rebarrel done X amount of times .

    That is another issue floating about with the RPR's , the guns show head space issues sometimes with the replacement barrels . Have heard about it with both the Proof and LRI prefits . Again reason to doubt building a precision rifle on a Walmart action .

    AI is the most reliable of the quick change systems but remember they were designed for military calibers and factory ammo that doesn't get reloaded . There are 5 of there rifles that I have personally seen have set back issues with the bolt lugs running hot rod competition calibers all AW's IIRC .

    Just shoot and rebarrel as needed . Unless you run one of the hotrod 6's you'll see 4k ish out of a barrel in a 6.5 at 2800 ish , schedule the rebarrel in the winter when the weather's crappy and remember Fritz likes Guinness and good whiskey .

  10. #40
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    That is another issue floating about with the RPR's , the guns show head space issues sometimes with the replacement barrels . Have heard about it with both the Proof and LRI prefits . Again reason to doubt building a precision rifle on a Walmart action .
    RPR barrels are not headspaced by the barrel maker, but by the installer. If there are headspace issues, it is the mechanic, not the machine.
    Good Shooting, MarkCO

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