Denver PD Fined for Declining Non US Citizens.

[CS1983]

I'm vehemently against the idea of any non-citizen performing any LE function that carries with it powers of arrest, etc., for any number of what should be brain-dead-obvious reasons...Non-citizens (legal) in military, "mall ninja security" jobs, etc. - no problem....

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But you're OK with non-citizens on the world stage, potentially dying, being maimed, etc., in a more-macro version of national service? I'm not following the logic.

[DireWolf]

But you're OK with non-citizens on the world stage, potentially dying, being maimed, etc., in a more-macro version of national service? I'm not following the logic.

Yes. Serving in the military has long been accepted as a viable path to citizenship, requires an oath at enlistment to defend/protect the constitution, and what with the posse comititus act, I cant imagine many circumstances where an individual enlisted service member (I wouldn't think there are many non-citizen commissions) would be placed in a position to enforce _____ law over US Citizens, and/or without the immediate presence of other service members or someone in thier chain of command present....

I believe this is VERY different than LE roles, where they have the potential to directly impact the freedoms and protections afforded to citizens, are not on a mil base or overseas theater where UCMJ takes precedence, etc., and the discresion of individual LE officers/agents play such an important part, where some familiary with both our laws and culture is required in order to perform those duties effectivly and in good faith (also in many circumstances without immediate supervision by their chain of command - i.e. nobody watching over sholder to make sure they execute their duties properly and in accordance with the law).

Part of becoming a citizen entails learning and sucessfully demonstaiting knowledge around areas such as history, civics, etc., and quite frankly I wouldn't trust a non-citizen not to violate basic freedoms and rights through ignorance (this is even a problem for people who have been educated in those areas). Once again, very different than performing duties in a military capacity, and way more opportunity for infringement, in my opinion....

This isn't about race, nationality, etc. It's about what I believe is a prerequisite level of understanding and, for lack of a better way of putting it, personal associations, required....

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[osok-308]

It doesn't make sense to me that you'd get sued for requiring citizenship in the country that you'd be enforcing the laws, but hey, that makes absolutely no sense to the media.

[Fmedges]

Yes. Serving in the military has long been accepted as a viable path to citizenship, requires an oath at enlistment to defend/protect the constitution, and what with the posse comititus act, I cant imagine many circumstances where an individual enlisted service member (I wouldn't think there are many non-citizen commissions) would be placed in a position to enforce _____ law over US Citizens, and/or without the immediate presence of other service members or someone in thier chain of command present....

I believe this is VERY different than LE roles, where they have the potential to directly impact the freedoms and protections afforded to citizens, are not on a mil base or overseas theater where UCMJ takes precedence, etc., and must have some familiary with both our laws and culture in order to perform their duties effectivly and in good faith (also in many circumstances without immediate supervision by their chain of command - i.e. nobody watching over sholder to make sure they execute their duties properly and in accordance with the law).

Part of becoming a citizen entails learning and sucessfully demonstaiting knowledge around areas such as history, civics, etc., and quite frankly I wouldn't trust a non-citizen not to violate basic freedoms and rights through ignorance (this is even a problem for people who have been educated in those areas). Once again, very different than performing duties in a military capacity, and way more opportunity for infringement, in my opinion....

This isn't about race, nationality, etc. It's about what I believe is a prerequisite level of understanding and, for lack of a better way of putting it, personal associations, required....

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I'm not an open carry guy, but why don't you go and try it and tell us how many current LE officers know and protect your freedoms. Not relating to your post but too often non citizens get confused with illegal aliens.

[ZERO THEORY]

[roberth]

A non-citizen working on gaining his citizenship might be an acceptable exception to the rule.

What percentage of non-citizens are working on becoming citizens?

[DireWolf]

I'm not an open carry guy, but why don't you go and try it and tell us how many current LE officers know and protect your freedoms.

Kind of my point....If we have problems even with US citizens in LE roles knowing, understanding, and respecting our rights as citizens, how much will that issue be compounded when those enforcement activities are in the hands of those without even the most basic rudimentary understanding of our laws and culture....

This is just my opinion, but I figure why borrow more problems when we already have so much to deal with.....


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[Irving]

Where someone is born has a direct effect on their ability to learn a job. That makes perfect sense and also explains why Asians are good at math. Thanks for the explanation.

[Irving]

Yes, very much so.

[DireWolf]

Where someone is born has a direct effect on their ability to learn a job. That makes perfect sense and also explains why Asians are good at math. Thanks for the explanation.

There's some of that in the mix I'm sure, but I think a bigger part is just having met/performed/demonstrated adherence and knowledge of any reasonable prerequisites (which may be easier for some than others based on what culture they grew up in).

For example, if someone just immigrates from their 3rd world village where they were a healer, doctor, etc., and wants to find a new livelihood here, then great. BUT, if they want to practice medicine here then they need to complete med school first (and any other legal requirements)....I believe the same principle can be applied in this case as well - meet all reasonable prerequisites for faithful/competent execution of duties and there is no issue....

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