Denver PD Fined for Declining Non US Citizens.

[CS1983]

Seems to me that you are desiring a standard for non-citizens that you don't place on the shoulders of citizens. To be honest, I think all Police should have to have a course in civics (many do, as part of their otherwise useless CJ degree).

It would seem to me that the answer would be to make applying for Police work have a national standard of acceptance based on knowledge of laws and their application, with local being able to add to, but not take away from that. I would assume there is some of that. I dunno, having never applied for such a position.

What I do know is that the citizen only route really looks like crap, cus it seems there's a very good sample of idiot cop videos all over the internet. Also, knowledge of something != adherence and application, as demonstrated by not only citizens who are cops, but even a huge amount of lawyers.

[Irving]

Seems to me that you are desiring a standard for non-citizens that you don't place on the shoulders of citizens. To be honest, I think all Police should have to have a course in civics (many do, as part of their otherwise useless CJ degree).

It would seem to me that the answer would be to make applying for Police work have a national standard of acceptance based on knowledge of laws and their application, with local being able to add to, but not take away from that. I would assume there is some of that. I dunno, having never applied for such a position.

What I do know is that the citizen only route really looks like crap, cus it seems there's a very good sample of idiot cop videos all over the internet. Also, knowledge of something != adherence and application, as demonstrated by not only citizens who are cops, but even a huge amount of lawyers.

I'll break it down for you based on the opinions expressed so far in this thread.

There should be a minimum performance standard in order for one to qualify to be a police officer; some sort of interview process or something for example. Non US citizen = wetback or mystical shawman from a jungle village. Hand this person a radar gun, and when they observe a citizen driving 30 mph in a 25 mph zone, the citizen may end up stabbed in the face with a fire stick since that's how it was done back in the village. So naturally, it is safer for the citizenry to wholesale ban non-citizens from applying for law enforcement positions.

[DireWolf]

Seems to me that you are desiring a standard for non-citizens that you don't place on the shoulders of citizens. To be honest, I think all Police should have to have a course in civics (many do, as part of their otherwise useless CJ degree).

It would seem to me that the answer would be to make applying for Police work have a national standard of acceptance based on knowledge of laws and their application, with local being able to add to, but not take away from that. I would assume there is some of that. I dunno, having never applied for such a position.

What I do know is that the citizen only route really looks like crap, cus it seems there's a very good sample of idiot cop videos all over the internet. Also, knowledge of something != adherence and application, as demonstrated by not only citizens who are cops, but even a huge amount of lawyers.

I see where you're coming from, and I don't pretend to have all the answers, but a couple thoughts...

1. At this point, who cares how it looks? So much of the shit were in is because "well, we don't want to look like big meanies". That's kowtowing to the PC crowd, and doesn't do us any favors. We need to do whats right for us (Americans, by birth or naturalization), and to hell with anyone that doesnt like it...

2. Can I become a member of the Canadian RCMP (with full powers of arrest/enforcement) without being a Canadian citizen? How about a Mexican Federale without being a Mexican citizen? UK Constable without being a UK citizen? The example here can go on, but I would be very suprised to learn that I can be hired for as a LE officer in any of those situations without being a citizen of the country in question.....

3. Do you want to try exaining to Hussien, who a year ago was with the Iraqi Federal Police and just got his green card, how you're not violating a law which doesn't even exist here, while his hand rests on his sidearm? (maybe this one is a little over the top, but emminently possible in the "allow anyone to be LE" paradigm)...

Perhaps a "gated" approach can be taken e.g. citizenship, or at least (to an earlier comment) active in-process for citizenship, is simply the first phase gate which must be passed, followed by additional requirements/testing/etc...

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[Delfuego]

The Denver Sheriffs are not the Denver Police. They primarily run the jails. Can an legal immigrant not cook food, drive a van or clean the office?

[DireWolf]

The Denver Sheriffs are not the Denver Police. They primarily run the jails. Can an legal immigrant not cook food, drive a van or clean the office?

Absolutely they can, and there should be no impediment to that.

The instant they are given powers of enforcement, arrest, applying deadly force under color of law (and the blanket immunity that I understand goes along with that) etc., then no friggin way would I be accepting or condoning of that without citizenship as a prerequisite (not like I have any choice or say in the matter though, so my opinion doesn't mean squat in this case...)

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[Great-Kazoo]

The Denver Sheriffs are not the Denver Police. They primarily run the jails. Can an legal immigrant not cook food, drive a van or clean the office?

Outside driving the van, those job duties go to trustees.

[milwaukeeshaker]

Illegal aliens should not be doing anything in this country, period. No jobs, no benefits, no rights, NO NOTHING!!! Go back to the country you are from and apply to LEGALLY come into this country! Simple. Additionally, illegals ain't any kind of immigrant, they are ALIENS, to hell with PC.

[CS1983]

1 - no, we are in this situation because a lot of police simply do not care about the law and routinely violate civil rights. When Jimmy from Alabama, born and bred, "Don't give no rats ass, I'm the law 'round he'e boy", does it make a difference if Jimmy is a citizen? Nope. Why is this occurring? Because Jimmy a) doesn't care because potentially b) Jimmy didn't have to pass much of a standard because c) citizens don't know much of anything about US law -- it's no longer really taught.

2 - Who cares what other countries do? That you'd appeal to the law in other countries about citizens of other countries not following US law because they don't know it is illogical beyond belief. If you want US law to be followed, then appeal to US law.

3 - What about explaining to Jimmy from Alabama?

If you want a standard, citizen from falling out of a uterus onto US soil is a pretty lame one. I'd prefer people who meet a standard of knowledge and ability to apply it.

[DireWolf]

1 - no, we are in this situation because a lot of police simply do not care about the law and routinely violate civil rights. When Jimmy from Alabama, born and bred, "Don't give no rats ass, I'm the law 'round he'e boy", does it make a difference if Jimmy is a citizen? Nope. Why is this occurring? Because Jimmy a) doesn't care because potentially b) Jimmy didn't have to pass much of a standard because c) citizens don't know much of anything about US law -- it's no longer really taught.

2 - Who cares what other countries do? That you'd appeal to the law in other countries about citizens of other countries not following US law because they don't know it is illogical beyond belief. If you want US law to be followed, then appeal to US law.

3 - What about explaining to Jimmy from Alabama?

If you want a standard, citizen from falling out of a uterus onto US soil is a pretty lame one. I'd prefer people who meet a standard of knowledge and ability to apply it.

I'm not disagreeing that there are bigger problems at play, and "good-ol-boy" officer Jimmy is a big one that isn't addressed by this.

I also dont really care what other countries do, my point is that we dont always have to be the 'nice guy' and for anybody that takes issue with us putting "Americans first" should go try their argument elsewhere and see how far that gets them...

Somebody will always be unhappy with any course of action taken, so in America, we need to put America and American citizens first (because whatever you think of those other countries, that's exactly what they are doing with respect to themselves), and any dissenting opinions can remain just that.....

And lastly, the standard isn't and shouldn't be just one item, because I completely agree with #3, and birth location is largely irrelevant (unless your formative years were spent learning "death to America" or the like)...


Maybe something like:

1. Does the position have enforcement authority (as opposed to admin functions)? If not, then go to less rigorous vetting (e.g. criminal/employment history, etc.)

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2. If enforcement, is applicant citizen or have documented proof of citizenship-in-progress?

3. Can applicant pass required background checks? (If they moved here from syria 6 months ago. My guess would be they can't)

If yes, then applicant provided with appropriate refresher training, including civics, US constitution, ethics, etc., with periodic retraining (similar to annual re-training required in many professions). This would be a blanket approach for all relevant personnel...


Once again, just my opinion on the matter, and I believe this is actually several issues which need to be considered as independent of each other, though closely related...





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[BushMasterBoy]

This is what happens when you don't hire competent legal counsel. I couldn't find any listing of an attorney on the sheriffs staff roster.