Sure seems quiet today

[OctopusHighball]

Can you imagine?
Every man sleeps in till 0600, sits in their chairs reading the paper, smoking a cigar, watching Clint Eastwood and Steve McQueen movies till 1200, cancels all his bills and spending for just that one day, takes a nap till 1500, wakes up to finish the 18 pack of beer, eats two steaks, two baked potatoes, a pound of bacon, 5th of Whiskey, and a gallon of ice cream apeice, does 1,000 push-ups, then goes to bed at 2200 so they can wake up and go back to work..... Making America Great Again.

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi

Sounds like March 14th, which is "Steak and a BJ Day" as a counter to Valentine's Day.

Of course, if you marry right, every day is Steak and a BJ Day.

[Martinjmpr]

Sounds like March 14th, which is "Steak and a BJ Day" as a counter to Valentine's Day.

Of course, if you marry right, every day is Steak and a BJ Day.

Gay marriage, right?

NTTAWTT....

[Great-Kazoo]

Sounds like March 14th, which is "Steak and a BJ Day" as a counter to Valentine's Day.

Of course, if you marry right, every day is Steak and a BJ Day.

Unless they surprise you with pork

[Ronin13]

I always just assumed that women were paid the same, but I know of several instances where women were not paid the same while doing the same job, with the same, and sometimes even more skill set/experience. That was the case when I was a young adjuster. Everyone was buddy buddy and how much we were each paid was never a secret for long. A lot of the women threw a fit when they found out they were making less than the guys. Especially the ones that were bi-lingual (white, college educated). I think it's more rampant than men assume.

I didn't know today was a thing, and am not making a comment on that part of it, because I honestly don't care and view this much like people on MySpace back in the day spreading the word to "don't buy gas on Tuesday, that'll show 'em!!!" Just pointing out that I always assumed people were paid the same (especially in entry level positions) until I found out that they weren't.

That sounds like an issue between the employer and the employee... not the business of the government to regulate. But I dunno, I've never worked a job where everyone isn't paid equally based on gender- if there is a difference in pay it's usually due to factors like experience, time in position, quality of work, attendance, sick time used, education, etc.

[Irving]

That sounds like an issue between the employer and the employee... not the business of the government to regulate. But I dunno, I've never worked a job where everyone isn't paid equally based on gender- if there is a difference in pay it's usually due to factors like experience, time in position, quality of work, attendance, sick time used, education, etc.

That's what I always assumed, until I started discussing rates with females that were hired at the same time, or before me, had equal/better qualifications, and definitely performed better than I did. I wasn't a great employee back then.

Also, I very much doubt you knew what everyone else was paid (I knew a few, but not most), so it'd sure be easy for you to assume that everyone was paid equally. That's pretty much the whole entire issue women are trying to raise. Men don't know and don't care so they just assume women are being "needy" or "whining."

[CS1983]

People don't want equal pay for equal work, because that would mean their pay would fluctuate from a baseline up and down -- how that gets measured is arguable. Sheer numbers or complicated = less numbers acceptable for equal credit?

KPI's are crappy in my opinion; they're the product of MBA's and other Managerial types who wouldn't know a doohickey from a doodad half the time. I've seen the work people put out when they are going for quantity and not quality -- but muh KPI's! On my old team (virtual), our sister team elsewhere had "rockstars" in the manager's eyes. Their work was utter crap -- it's still crap after I surpassed them in technical terms and moved up (I have to deal with their tickets they kick on). On my old team, I was consistently in the top 10 across the entire team (only one in that bracket from COS) and my work was good. It was how I got into this current position without an interview -- current guys I now work with loved getting my tickets, and they rarely got them because I was doing tier 2 and sometimes tier 3 solutions at a tier 1 position. I'm now in a tier 2 and constantly finding ways to not kick things to tier 3. I tried yesterday, and tier 3 sent it back and said they couldn't do anything and the customer would just have to live with it (I'd already done everything they would do without violating DISA STIGS).

I'm the 2nd highest paid person on my team in COS, the highest paid being a former USAF Network Engineer/Computer tech who has like 9 years experience in our position; his work output is 1/3 of mine on average -- are his tickets harder? I dunno, I only see the numbers. I'm the only one with a degree (Associates) -- does that make me better? Probably not, since degrees are largely worthless except for getting better pay. I'm the most productive on the COS team last I knew, though that could change if I get some hard ones and someone else gets a slew of easy ones. Our counterparts elsewhere get paid 5-10k more a year than we do, often do less work, and their cost of living is lower -- should I bitch? In a liberal world, yes. However, I agreed to do this job for X pay and I'm sticking to that. Between salar+med retirement from the Army/VA, I still make more than our folks elsewhere.

On my first team in the IT field, we had two women. Both were paid like $7/hr more than I was and they were not good at all. They simply had time in the job. We have two women on our team I'm on now. One is new, so it's hard to say if she will be worth it. The other is not worth it -- 1 good tech was let go because of her and while I cannot prove it, I'm convinced she lied to get him fired. I don't miss him because I liked him (I didn't). I miss him because he did the work of 2 of her. I can think of 1 or 2 guys who aren't worth it either -- low work output and they complain about workload.

Generally, when I've worked with women, they're either lackluster or horrible. Every once in a while a real gem is a coworker, but it's rare.
Not sure why, but it might be because of a numbers game -- more men work in this field than women. However, the rockstar women on other teams are definitely rockstar. There's one who, if I could just sit and listen to her talk about all the things she's forgotten, I would learn more than I ever learned in a class or from a book.

Women I've worked with usually get by in an average manner of quality by simply asking for the answer. The guys do a lot of their "heavy lifting" and they just regurgitate the answer as given. This is fine for a person new to a team and still learning the team and its tasks -- especially since our documentation is awful. After 3 months it becomes unacceptable. 6 months or a year is atrocious. One woman on my old team was not that technically good, but it was a totally customer facing position and she had the gift of gab. She knows everyone in the building. I treat her well because she has a gift with people and she's old enough to be my mother. She serves a purpose people like myself could not. I don't care about your day, I don't care about your puppy's picture on your desktop and I certainly am not going to spend anytime making you feel good about the fact you did the dumb. She does all that. Teams, even technical teams, need someone like her.

Point of all this is that no one gets paid equally except in certain situations, like the military -- and even that is not equal because time in rank/service, marital status, etc. has an effect.

Equal pay for equal work is a fantasy. No one works equally. Some get "underpaid" and some get massively overpaid. At the end of the day, if a person agrees to do X job for X pay, that's it. End of story. Anything else is simply an inroad for liberalism.

[1] The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. [2] And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. [3] And going out about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle. [4] And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just. [5] And they went their way. And again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did in like manner.

[6] But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle? [7] They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard. [8] And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first. [9] When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. [10] But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.

[11] And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, [12] Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. [13] But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? [14] Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. [15] Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?

Matthew 20, Douay-Rheims Bible

[Ronin13]

That's what I always assumed, until I started discussing rates with females that were hired at the same time, or before me, had equal/better qualifications, and definitely performed better than I did. I wasn't a great employee back then.

Also, I very much doubt you knew what everyone else was paid (I knew a few, but not most), so it'd sure be easy for you to assume that everyone was paid equally. That's pretty much the whole entire issue women are trying to raise. Men don't know and don't care so they just assume women are being "needy" or "whining."

True- I don't know what most make among those I work with. And the women I work with (granted we work for the government) don't complain about being paid less than their male counterparts because everyone started at the same pay rate, once you get your first evaluation that's where the divergence comes in. Other jobs, it was a sort of "None of my business" thing. Again, what people are paid (not sure if you can do pre-employment research on pay) is between them and their employer. The gubment has no business telling a business what someone's work is worth.

[Irving]

That's always the crux. I'll tell you though, if you just assume that people are making up a discrepancy, it's more likely that you're just uninformed. I'm not saying that to be rude. It might not be common, but it certainly exists in our work places. I can't really add that much more to the conversation though because I neither employ anyone, nor feel that I'm discriminated against.

[Gman]

I don't discuss what I make with anyone but my employer and my wife. I've found that discussing wages with co-workers does nothing but get you or the other person wound-up. Whatever my co-workers make was negotiated between them and my employer. It's none of my business. What I make is none of their business.

[Irving]

I don't discuss what I make with anyone but my employer and my wife. I've found that discussing wages with co-workers does nothing but get you or the other person wound-up. Whatever my co-workers make was negotiated between them and my employer. It's none of my business. What I make is none of their business.

This makes everything better for everyone. The employers sure appreciate it.